Dr. Brad Fuster—Championing Innovation in Higher Education at San Francisco Bay University and EDUP Innovation

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First of all, the the president
here, Nicola Danny, has this

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healthy disgruntlement with
higher education.

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And so I think if you look at
the outcomes, you know, 4-5 and

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six year graduation rates in the
United States, they're around

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60%.
And what does that mean?

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I mean, 40% of the students who
enter higher education are

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leaving with no degree and debt.
And 60% is a bailing grade you

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wouldn't get on an airplane
that, you know, 40% of the time

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left you stranded and took your
money.

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And that's what's happening to
millions and millions of

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students in the United States.
So let's start there.

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Those outcomes are really bad.
And then if you dig into that

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40% who's leading with no degree
in debt, who is it?

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It's the first generation hell
eligible underrepresented

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student who is already at risk.
And now we're putting them in a

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situation where they're even
further behind.

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And So what are we trying to do
as a challenger brand?

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We're trying to a shine a light
on that demographic and that

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statistic and say this.
Hi, I'm Anna Young from

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Sunnyside Literacy Lab and
you're listening to the Add Up

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Accelerated Excellence podcast.
Thank you for tuning in to Add

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Up Accelerated Excellence, the
podcast for the advancement of

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educational excellence and
equity.

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And we would like to share 2
wonderful opportunities for

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That teaching is one of the most
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upon which all others are
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So help us in elevating educator
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notes.

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notes.
Welcome, welcome, welcome to Add

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Up Accelerated Excellence, the
podcast where we seek to advance

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educational excellence and
equity.

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And I'm your host, Jacob Easley,
the second PHDPMP.

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And today's guest is Doctor Brad
Fuster, who is Provost and Vice

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President for Academic Affairs
at at San Francisco Bay

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University and is host of one of
the remarkable podcasts of the

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Add Up Experience Network.
He hosts Add Up innovation.

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So Brad, welcome to the show.
Would you introduce yourself to

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the audience by giving voice to
your name and just give us a 35

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aerial perspective on what's top
of mind for you?

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Currently.
Yeah.

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Hey, Jacob.
Thank you.

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Good morning.
It's 7:00 AM on the West Coast

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here, so I'm up bright and early
talking to you on Friday here.

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And yeah, I, I have the
privilege of serving as as

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Provost at San Francisco Bay
University.

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I'm coming up on two years here
in the role.

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And, you know, I love being in
Silicon Valley.

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I love all of the innovative
things that we're trying at San

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Francisco Bay University and
that sort of people like you and

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others on the add up experience
platform have have inspired me

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to start the Add up innovation
podcast.

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And I'm, you know, I don't
really care if people listen.

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I'm having so much fun having
these great conversations with,

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with innovative leaders,
university presidents, faculty,

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staff, administrators who are
doing really innovative things

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in a, in a, in a space and in a
time where higher Ed is

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struggling, continues to
struggle and innovation is the

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way forward.
So it's a passion project for

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me.
I love, I loved having these

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conversations.
It forces me to read things I

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wouldn't otherwise read or, you
know, have conversations with

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folks I wouldn't otherwise
prioritize making time to talk

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to you.
And it's just been such a

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blessing and and such a rich
experience for me.

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So Brad, thank you for that.
To kick us off with this, I, I,

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I'm just going to throw this out
there, but do you have a working

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definition for innovation?
Yeah, that's a, that's a, a

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tough one right out of the the
gate here at 7:00 AM.

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Jacob, it's probably not going
to be so elegant.

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But, you know, for me, I really
think about with innovation hand

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in hand, I think about
disruption.

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I think about, you know, and if
you go back to kind of Clay

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Christensen's work and his, you
know, just disruptive innovation

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book, I think about where you
have 4000 universities who are

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all pretty much doing the same
thing in the same way, where we

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have a four year undergraduate
experience.

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That's, that has a cycle with
the kind of crop cycle where

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students go to school from
September through May in

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semesters and they take classes
and units of, you know, 3

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credits and they hit 120 and
then they graduate.

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They all pretty much take the
same kind of general education,

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whether you're at Harvard or
whether you're at a local

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Community College.
And then, you know, that system

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and that structure in 2026 is
not really serving students as,

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as well as it could.
So to me, innovation in higher

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education is when somebody looks
at that structure and says we're

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going to smash all of that down,
the 10 year system, the the

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college schedule, the credit
structure and we're going to

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actively try and build something
different.

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We're going to disrupt the
current model.

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And if you think about like what
the digital camera did to Kodak

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or if you think about what
Netflix did to Blockbuster,

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those are the types of
disruption and innovation that

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I'm seeking to shine a spotlight
on in higher education.

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And it's the work that we're
trying to do at San Francisco

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Bay University so long winded.
But for me, I think innovation

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is really when you have a
disruptor in the system who's

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actively trying to to improve
outcomes and do things in a

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radically different way.
Or thank you for that.

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So not long winded because I
think the context and painting a

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picture is important for our
conversation today.

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So we're going to go backwards a
bit and then come forward to

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really to to explore this idea
of innovation.

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So you began your career as a
music professor and a

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professional musician, so an
orchestra work.

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How exciting is that?
But what initially drew you to

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music and how did that
discipline shape the way you

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think about leadership and
creativity?

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Wow.
Great, Great questions.

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Yeah, I was a music professor.
I was a orchestral

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percussionist.
All three of my degrees,

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bachelor's, master's, doctorate,
are in percussion performance,

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which is not the typical pathway
to a Provost position or to

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leadership.
And that's certainly if you go

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back to 18 year old me, you
know, I just wanted to play

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music.
I just wanted to play in an

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orchestra.
I had a very long and successful

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career as a orchestral musician
playing with orchestras, you

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know, in Hollywood and really
all over the world, touring all

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over the world.
And, you know, eventually I

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became a music professor in
1999.

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I was, I got a full time tenure
track position at Montana State

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University and worked there for
six years.

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And during that time I became
the interim music department

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chair.
And, you know, the chair went on

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sabbatical and I thought, wow,
this is this is really

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interesting.
I can help shape the curriculum.

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I can fix some things that I see
that will will serve students.

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And then I saw my own like music
department chair position at

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Buffalo State University in
2005.

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And that was a really unique
opportunity because we got to

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form the department sort of from
scratch.

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It was a performing arts
department that was music,

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theater and dance all smashed
together.

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Everything was growing at the
time.

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So they hired a full time chair
of music.

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And so I was chair there for 9
years.

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And I think in that role I
really honed my leadership

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ability.
I was kind of a young

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professional, associate
professor of music, playing full

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time in the Buffalo
Philharmonic, working full time

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at Buffalo State University.
And then after nine years in the

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chair position, the president
kind of tapped me on the

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shoulder and said, hey, the guy
who does enrollment management

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left.
Would you like to be the interim

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AVP of enrollment management?
Because you grew the music

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department, Maybe you could help
us grow the whole university.

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So I sat for a year in that
role, and that concluded, and I

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thought I'd go back to music.
But then she tapped me on the

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shoulder again and said, hey,
our vice president and chief

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technology officer left.
Would you like to be the, the,

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the CIO?
So OK, now I'm, you know, on the

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president's cabinet in an
interim capacity.

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And then I thought, I'm probably
not going back to music like

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this.
It was an organic kind of

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journey into higher Ed
leadership.

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I then did an ACE fellowship,
which I highly recommends.

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Great program that gave me a
year to really explore what

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leadership in higher Ed looks
like and what it means and what

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would be the right fit for me.
And then eventually in 2018,

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transition to become Provost at
KUKA College and stop teaching

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music and eventually had to stop
playing music and just kind of

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moved into full time leadership
size Provost at KUKA from 2818

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to 2025 S 6 year run there
through the pandemic, which was

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tough for for lots of schools
and especially that school.

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And then two years ago came out
here to San Francisco to join

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the mission of being a
disruptor.

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And, you know, actively trying
to fix some of the the things

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that I think all of us who work
here see in higher Ed that are

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not really serving students as
well as they could to be that to

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be that Netflix to be that, you
know, digital camera to really

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try and disrupt the model.
And we're doing some great work

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here.
And I'm having a blast and

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certainly learning a lot,
continue to learn a lot.

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And so that's been the, the
leadership arc from kind of

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musician, music professor into,
you know, full time academic

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leadership.
So Brad, it really sounds like

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your role at Buff State being a
chair of that of that department

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really was sort of that entree
into these big ideas around

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innovation.
I think so, yeah.

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I mean that's the role I was in
the longest.

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You know, I've been in higher at
26 years and that nine year run

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as chair at Buffalo State, I
certainly learned a lot, you

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know, had great colleagues,
really have a lot of love for

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that program still still in
touch with those folks.

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I really got to try some some
things, you know, and and find

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my leadership voice.
So yeah, that was a very pivotal

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position for me.
And you know, I mean, it's

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really unique position because
you're in a position to create

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something from the ground up,
which many leaders don't have

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the opportunity.
As you mentioned, your Provost

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tapped you to step into roles
that already existed within the

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existing infrastructure.
I'm sure you continue to

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innovate in that way, but could
you illuminate for us what is it

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like to be to come in and be
able to create programming from

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the down, up?
Yeah.

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So I've had that opportunity
twice in my career.

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Once was when I came to Buffalo
State and we had to kind of form

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the music department.
And I think that really prepared

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me for this role as as Provost
at San Francisco Bay University,

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where literally nothing really
existed here when I came.

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We're a new brand, a new
university.

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We've only been around as San
Francisco Bay for like 5 years.

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The president's been here three
years.

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I've been here 2 years.
I hired all of the faculty here.

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I hired every single faculty
member I had to hire.

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We rewrote the catalog, we
rewrote the student handbook.

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Literally every operational
policy we have has been

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rewritten.
So that is daunting, my friend.

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That is in one.
In one way, it seems like a, a

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dream, right?
Because you get to put your

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stamp and fix a lot of the
nonsense that perpetuates in

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higher Ed.
On the other hand, it is

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daunting because when I first
got here, I was thinking, OK,

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how should we structure?
Well, we'll have departments and

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the departments will have chairs
and the chairs will report the

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Deans and the Deans will report
to me.

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I'm like, wait a minute, this is
this is we're just rebuilding

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the same system because it's all
I knew.

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And so to kind of use some
design thinking and work

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backwards and think like, what
are we trying to accomplish for

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trying to serve students and
what structures will serve

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students the best?
And you know, how can we kind of

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rebuild this airplane, by the
way, while we're flying in it

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to, to really have a structure
that will serve students the

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best.
And so we have a very flat

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structure.
We do not have tenure.

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We we do have shared governance,
but it's not in through a formal

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committee structure.
It's, you know, I meet with the

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department chairs here and we
talk about what, what changes we

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00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,920
want to make or how we can
better serve students.

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And then we execute immediately.
We don't study it for 10 years

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and send it to committees to, to
debate.

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And I can give you some
examples.

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We were in here in my office
meeting on a Friday, and our

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librarian said, look, 70% of the
books that we're using are

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00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,240
available through free
subscriptions from our

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00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,920
databases.
And so I asked the chairs, what

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would it take to get the other
30%?

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And they're like, we can do
this.

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00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,960
So we decided on a Friday, you
know, SFB will have free

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textbooks for all students.
And then on Monday when I kind

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00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,480
of walked to work, we have a big
one of those digital signs in

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00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,600
front of the building and there
was free textbooks like decide

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00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,920
on a Friday that we can do free
textbooks.

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00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,240
And on Monday there is a
billboard that says come to SFB

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00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,800
you we have free textbooks.
That's how quickly we can make a

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00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,680
decision and execute on it.
And especially one that that

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really serves students.
So I love that agility.

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00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:19,839
I love working with my chairs
and faculty to make rapid

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00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:21,599
decisions that will benefit
students.

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I'm.
Speaking with Brad Fusta, who is

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00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:30,120
the Provost and vice president
for academic affairs at San

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00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:34,760
Francisco Bay University and the
host of Add Up innovation, the

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00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,240
podcast part of the Add up
Experience network.

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00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,560
So Brad, this, this idea of
being able to your current

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00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:49,040
position to produce right on
time innovation.

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So this sort of rapid iteration
of, of new ideas.

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I I think that serves really
well in a very new places.

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And as you said, a flat
structure.

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00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:02,960
And I'm going to have you to
think out of it.

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00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,560
When your institution grows
exponentially in terms of

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00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:11,000
students and faculty, how do you
think you'll be able to maintain

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00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:19,720
that rapid innovation and in in
real time when often the process

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00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,560
becomes, and I want to say
bureaucratic, but you know, you

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00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,320
have to work in different
channels to be able to

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00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,640
implement.
So as you will grow larger, how

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00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,720
does how does one think about
scale and at the same time

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00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:36,200
maintain some of that that
unique features of being able to

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00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:41,680
implement pretty much on a dime?
Yeah, it's a multi $1,000,000

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00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:43,440
question.
Jacob, you asked the tough

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00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,280
questions.
Yeah, right now our size which

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00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:52,360
is small allows us to be very
agile, very nimble, very

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00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,720
responsive.
The governance structure even

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00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,760
when we scale will not change,
right.

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00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:01,120
So that kind of making
collective decisions, we're not

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00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:04,360
going to put a big cumbersome
committee structure in place.

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00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:09,000
We're going to continue to kind
of lead by consensus and, and,

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00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,200
and move forward very rapidly.
Another answer to the question

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00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,200
of scale is AI.
We are an AI first institution.

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00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,120
We have AI built in from the
bottom up.

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00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:25,440
When you asked before, you know,
how do you approach the blank

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00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:30,480
page and start from scratch?
Many universities now are

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00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:36,000
realizing this technology that's
that's emerged is, is the future

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00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:40,800
and in many, many cases the 4th
industrial revolution, right.

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00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,200
And if we're graduating students
who don't know how to work with

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00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,080
AI, we're graduating students
who are not prepared to succeed

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00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,040
in in the workplace.
And So what are universities

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00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,560
doing?
They're bolting AI onto existing

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00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,680
curriculum.
We build AI in from the body.

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00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:01,760
Like when we redesign courses,
we've embedded AI in multiple

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00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,240
meaningful ways into our
curriculum.

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00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,640
So assignments are telling
students use Chachi PT to do

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00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,920
this, use Claude to do that, and
don't use it for these things.

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00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,880
We also have an AI tutor that
rides along with the classes

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00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,880
that the students can have
conversations with at night.

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00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,640
That we learn in real time what,
what they're struggling with,

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00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:27,160
what they're doing well with.
And so our ability to kind of

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00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,040
scale, that is what we're
working on now actively is

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00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,440
launching a degree that's
completely online that has AI

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00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,800
faculty avatars built into the
class.

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00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,760
And so we think that that are
trained in our pedagogical

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00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,560
model.
So we think in terms of scale.

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00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,680
Scale doesn't necessarily mean
more humans in the loop.

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00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,600
And as we serve more and more
students, I think we're

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00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,320
experimenting with how can we
use artificial intelligence to

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00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,920
give students a really human
centered, meaningful education

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00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:03,800
to maximize the work of the
faculty.

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00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,840
So we want to grow.
We're going to grow, but we're

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00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,600
going to do it with technology.
And I don't know that we're

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00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,920
going to have a much larger
workforce than we currently

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00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:13,600
have.
So I think the the rapid

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00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:18,400
decisions that we can make
shouldn't be tremendously

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00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,360
affected as we as we serve more
and more students.

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00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:28,120
I definitely see the design
logic and this idea of being

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00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:33,200
able to integrate or build with
AI from the ground up is

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00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,440
definitely a treasured position
to be in.

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00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:40,160
So again, I think there's some
uniqueness in being able to

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00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,560
develop from the ground up.
So now serving in the in your

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00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,600
role as Provost and vice
president of Academic Advance at

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00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:53,280
San Francisco Bay University,
the university describes itself

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00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:58,480
as a Challenger brand disruptor
in higher education.

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00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,000
So you alluded to this before,
but what attracted you to the

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00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:08,920
position and can you unpack this
concept of Challenger brand in

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00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:10,920
higher education, four year
university?

351
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,720
Yeah, Yeah.
Well, there's just, there's a

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00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,320
million attractive things about
working at San Francisco Bay

353
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,520
University.
First of all, the the president

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00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:26,320
here, Nicola Danny, has this
healthy disgruntlement with

355
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,800
higher education.
And so I think if you look at

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00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:35,440
the outcomes, you know, 4-5 and
six year graduation rates in the

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00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,640
United States, they're around
60%.

358
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,760
And what does that mean?
I mean, 40% of the students who

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00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,520
enter higher education are
leaving with no degree and debt.

360
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:51,320
And 60% is a failing grade you
wouldn't get on an airplane

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00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:54,520
that, you know, 40% of the time
left you stranded and took your

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00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,200
money.
And that's what's happening to

363
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,560
millions and millions of
students in the United States.

364
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,760
So let's start there.
Those outcomes are really bad.

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00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,760
And then if you dig into that
40% who's leaving with no degree

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00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,280
in debt, who is it?
It's the first generation Pell

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00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,560
eligible underrepresented
student who is already at risk.

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00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,480
And now we're putting them in
the situation where they're even

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00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,200
further behind.
And So what are we trying to do

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00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,480
as a challenger brand?
We're, we're trying to, A, shine

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00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:31,040
a light on that demographic and
that statistic and say this

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00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,560
higher Ed is unacceptable.
And then B, we're going to put

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00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,560
some things in place at San
Francisco Bay that that really

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00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,200
endeavors to, to serve that
student in a, in a different

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00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,400
way.
And so if you think about

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00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,440
Challenger brands just in stuff
that you and I buy every day,

377
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,520
Airbnb is a Challenger because
it disrupted the hotel industry.

378
00:23:56,360 --> 00:24:00,000
Some people prefer to stay in a
house when they travel or to

379
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,600
stay in an apartment and not
stay at a Marriott.

380
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,680
Airbnb is not trying to replace
Marriott.

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00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,680
It's trying to serve a piece of
the market that's currently

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00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,520
underserved or unserved by the
current model.

383
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,680
They're not trying to be the
biggest in the vertical.

384
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,200
That's what we're trying to do.
We're not trying to, you know,

385
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,160
look, we're surrounded by
Berkeley in the north and

386
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,760
Stanford in the South of us.
We're not trying to compete with

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00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,800
Berkeley and Stanford.
Those R ones have their place

388
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,680
and they're great at what they
do, but we know that there are

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00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,240
millions of students in
California and nationally who

390
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,280
are not served by the current
model because the data suggests

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00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,640
that they're 40% of the students
are leaving.

392
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:44,280
We want those students and we
argue that if they caught if

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00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,120
with the structures and
decisions that we've made here,

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00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:52,000
mandatory faculty training
classes capped at 20, AI tutors

395
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:57,160
riding on board, super low
tuition, free textbooks, wrap

396
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,720
around support and unlimited
mental health support.

397
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,720
Those investments are really,
really serving students in a way

398
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,640
that many community colleges
and, you know, other state

399
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,000
institutions are not able to
provide.

400
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,560
And so we want to be that option
for students.

401
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,880
And you know, as I mentioned
earlier when we were talking off

402
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,160
camera, we have an awful lot of
international students.

403
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,720
We have students here from 45
different countries and then

404
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,520
increasingly now more domestic
students largely from

405
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,600
California.
Our population is first

406
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,920
generation, definitely eligible
underrepresented students from

407
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,000
largely Oakland or San Jose.
You know, our, our neighbors in

408
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,760
Silicon Valley, those are
students who traditionally

409
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,560
either wouldn't go to college or
if they did go to college, maybe

410
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:51,160
would, would graduate in a 20%
to 25% range, which is, you

411
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,040
know, again, completely
unacceptable.

412
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,200
Our fall to spring retention for
the entire university was

413
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,960
99.76%.
So we retain pretty much 100% of

414
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,560
our students and students that
are in a demographic where, you

415
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,240
know, most other universities
are, are really struggling to

416
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,560
put things in place that allows
those students to really thrive

417
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,000
and succeed.
So our initial data would

418
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,720
suggest that the bets that we've
made, the investments that we've

419
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,200
made are really paying off for
these students.

420
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,680
And that is what is supremely
attractive about the work that

421
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,600
we're doing at San Francisco Bay
University.

422
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,320
And I think what we're showing
here is not just like, look how

423
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,400
great we are, we're it's proof
of concept that these

424
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,160
investments can be made at other
institutions.

425
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:44,760
And and like we can serve as a
model so that many other

426
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,560
institutions can, can make some
of the moves that we've made

427
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,360
and, and increase their
retention and success rates.

428
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:57,760
So a near 100% retention rate is
really that's astounding.

429
00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,040
It's it is.
Yeah.

430
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,520
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Find more details in the show
notes.

439
00:27:50,260 --> 00:27:51,860
All of this innovation
happening.

440
00:27:52,540 --> 00:27:56,100
We don't want folks to believe
that everything's amazing and

441
00:27:56,100 --> 00:27:59,040
great.
What have been one or two of the

442
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:04,000
significant challenges you have
faced as being a Challenger

443
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,120
brand disruptor?
Yeah.

444
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,280
So, you know, when I talk to my
friends and colleagues in higher

445
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,720
Ed and I tell them about, you
know, the work we're doing here,

446
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,800
we have this big financial
runway to to take the risks that

447
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,760
we're taking, not even really
risks experiments.

448
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,560
And we have WASP accreditation,
which are like the two biggest

449
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,280
things you need, you need, you
need money and you need

450
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,160
accreditation.
And then you need the political

451
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,840
will, right?
You need a president who's

452
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,880
saying we will, we will serve
these students and we will

453
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,960
invest.
They, they think like, you know,

454
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,680
you must be on Mars because like
how, how you know, how is this

455
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,880
even possible?
And I listened to the

456
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:43,760
challenges.
I was just at the ACE

457
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,440
conference, you know, a month
ago and I listened to the

458
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,560
challenges in the sector.
You know, there's a lot going on

459
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,400
in Washington, DC that is really
challenging higher.

460
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,680
We're not, we're not affected.
We don't we don't take title for

461
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:01,200
funds.
We use our own funding.

462
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:06,960
We don't do research.
So we're not reliant on federal

463
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,320
grants.
You know, I think the challenges

464
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,360
we have are largely, at least
from a political standpoint,

465
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,800
because we have a lot of
international students.

466
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:21,200
I saw an e-mail go out yesterday
saying we advise you not to

467
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,680
leave for spring break.
We advise you to stay here

468
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,520
because the the political
landscape is so dynamic and the

469
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,920
F1 visas are so fragile right
now that if you're in the United

470
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:33,840
States, stay in the United
States.

471
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:39,320
And attracting students from
overseas to study here right now

472
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:45,120
is like at an all time like we
are about as unattractive as as

473
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,920
a nation as you could be.
I would not come here if I was

474
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,880
an international student.
It's just extremely hostile.

475
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,560
So the F1 visa situation is a
challenge for us.

476
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,840
I also think kind of the startup
nature of what we're doing.

477
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,080
When I came, there were like 25
employees a year and a half ago.

478
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,080
And now we're, you know,
approaching 200.

479
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,520
And so 10X growth in a, in a
year and a half, that's painful.

480
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:16,400
Like to lead through that speed
and level of change is, is a

481
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:21,400
challenge.
And it's a fast-paced kind of

482
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,400
messy environment.
You have to thrive in ambiguity.

483
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,600
We change directions on a dime.
Higher Ed is not used to that.

484
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,200
And so when you hire people out
of traditional higher Ed, they

485
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,440
think they're joining a
university that's going to be

486
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,320
the same experience that they've
had where, you know, decisions

487
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,200
are deliberated over and slow
moving.

488
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,160
And that is not being that you
will not thrive in this.

489
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,520
So, you know, when I started, I
had no admin assistant.

490
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,680
I was, I was setting up
searches.

491
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,880
I was ordering lunch, I was
working all night.

492
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,960
You know, I was doing, doing
what you do in a startup

493
00:30:55,560 --> 00:31:00,640
environment and startup in
higher Ed or not, it's rare you

494
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,240
have a startup in higher Ed.
And so if you're, if you're able

495
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:05,840
to thrive in that environment,
that's great.

496
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,520
If you're not able to thrive in
that environment, it's it's hard

497
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,760
to hire the right employees here
who are going to thrive in kind

498
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,240
of the chaos of, of working
units, such a fast-paced

499
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,880
environment.
You, you bring up a really

500
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,880
interesting point.
So this idea of traditional

501
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:27,400
higher Ed and startup mentality
don't always it's like oil and

502
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:28,640
water they.
Don't.

503
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,200
They don't gel so well.
So when you think about hiring

504
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,360
folks, are you find that finding
that folks are jumping ship from

505
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:43,800
other universities or are you
reaching out or mining the

506
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:50,360
landscape for perhaps
untraditional community members

507
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,040
who may not have taken the
traditional higher Ed route,

508
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,680
working in in traditional higher
Ed, but maybe innovators in

509
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,000
their own disciplines and
workspaces?

510
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,080
Yeah, great questions, Jacob.
It's a bit of both to be honest.

511
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,600
You know, we're so in Silicon
Valley, we're surrounded by the

512
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,080
biggest and the best companies
in the world.

513
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,760
And some of our faculty have
spent most of their time in

514
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,080
industry and they've kind of
made all their money and they're

515
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,200
a little bit burned out on the
pace and the schedule of working

516
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,400
for Google or Apple.
Nothing against Google or Apple.

517
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,720
I use both products everyday,
but they're they're ready to

518
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,360
teach.
They want they want a different,

519
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,120
they want to change.
And you know, a lot of us folks

520
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:35,440
have have spent time in
industry.

521
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,080
Maybe they were an adjunct and
they're like, you know what,

522
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,600
like I love students.
I love teaching student.

523
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,320
Like that's the person I want to
hire somebody who, you know,

524
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,360
brings tremendous amount of
industry expertise, probably has

525
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:52,800
a PhD, has managed, you know,
hundreds of people in their

526
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,680
organization.
And they're like, you know what

527
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,480
I really want to get back now
in, in my 50s and 60s, I'm ready

528
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:03,120
to enter a new, a new chapter of
my life and I want to teach.

529
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,360
I've hired a lot of people who,
who kind of come from that

530
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,480
background.
I've hired a few from

531
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,520
traditional higher Ed who are
folks like me and the others who

532
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,840
are a little slightly
disgruntled with, with higher Ed

533
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,320
and, and want to make a change.
And when I, I'm so passionate

534
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,080
about the work we're doing here
and now that we're actually

535
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,560
having some, some really
tangible results, you know, I

536
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,200
speak about that and that fires
people up.

537
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,880
And so, you know, just yesterday
I was in San Jose 8:00 in the

538
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,600
morning.
I was talking to 42 high school

539
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:42,400
guidance counselors from at the
Metro Ed District.

540
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,840
This is a place where kids go to
their high school for half the

541
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,080
day and then they come to this
place and they learn things like

542
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:52,200
welding or HVAC or Med tech.
And I was saying, look, we have,

543
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,800
we have these, these great
programs in business, computer

544
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,960
science, psychology, super low
tuition, in some cases free.

545
00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:02,000
We have a start up scholars
program and I can talk to you

546
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,880
about those.
Students don't don't pay any

547
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,920
tuition.
They don't pay any room aboard.

548
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,719
Everybody gets free books, they
get a laptop and they get

549
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,639
$10,000 to, to found a passion
project when they graduate.

550
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,440
Perfect for these, these
students who like working with

551
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,000
their hands and like, you know,
so I was talking to these high

552
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,800
school guidance counselors,
pretty much similar conversation

553
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,080
to what we're having this
morning, you and I.

554
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,719
And at the end, two or three of
the guidance counselors came up

555
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,000
to me and they said, are you
hiring guidance counselors?

556
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,719
Like are you, are you hiring
advisors and counselors?

557
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,080
Because I love what you're
saying and I love the work

558
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,760
you're doing.
And so I think now that we have

559
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,679
this proof of concept and we're
having such good results, it's

560
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:45,000
going to be magnetic.
It's going to attract the talent

561
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,440
that is organically aligned with
our mission and the work we're

562
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,560
doing.
So it gets easier now that we,

563
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,960
you know, we've stood up our
programs, we've put critical

564
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,720
mass in place and it's going to,
you know, it's going to, it's

565
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:01,200
going to attract the right
talent to the organization.

566
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,960
So it's a little bit easier now.
A year ago, it was very

567
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:05,960
difficult to say like this is
the vision.

568
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:07,960
We don't have anybody working
here yet.

569
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,640
Come join me and and we'll do
this together.

570
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,680
But yeah, I mean, we, we made
some great hires and some early

571
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,800
adopters jumped on with the work
we're doing.

572
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,360
And I'm so thankful to have the
team around me that I have.

573
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,320
That makes sense.
I mean, and what you're talking

574
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,760
about now is having folks who
want to come join you and you

575
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,440
have to turn them away or, you
know, you're having your

576
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,600
programs growing exponentially.
I had an advisor once who would

577
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,240
call those better problems.
Yeah, those are great problems.

578
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:41,480
That's right.
Yeah.

579
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,680
So we're going to shift a bit,
if you don't mind and talk about

580
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,760
add up innovation.
Yeah.

581
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:55,120
So the podcast, which amplifies
voices of leaders and disruptors

582
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,880
in higher education.
And given your current role, I

583
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,880
can see how this is there's a
there's a red line that seems to

584
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:10,120
make sense from your attitude
and your passion for this space

585
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:13,280
as a disruptor and the guest
that you bring on the show.

586
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,440
So what inspires you to start
the show?

587
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:16,920
Yeah.
Thanks, Jacob.

588
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,880
So when I moved from from
upstate New York to San

589
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:25,160
Francisco 2 summers ago, you
know, I had a rickety U-Haul

590
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:30,400
truck with my stuff in the back
and I drove for five days across

591
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,800
the United States and I decided
I'm just going to listen to

592
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,720
podcasts, right?
You've got 15 hours a day of

593
00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:40,920
drivetime, not great radio
reception.

594
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,720
And so I'm just going to, I'm
just going to scroll through

595
00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:47,760
podcasts.
And I found the add up the add

596
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,080
up experience, right with with
Joe and Alvin.

597
00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:55,800
I found, I think your podcast, I
found Nicole Puff who does add

598
00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,080
up curriculum, Laurie
Chanderson, who does add up

599
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,360
accreditation.
And I just like for days and

600
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,120
days burned through these
episodes driving my truck, you

601
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:12,640
know, across Kansas.
And I thought, gosh, you know,

602
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,960
this seems like so much fun.
Like I could I could do this.

603
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,880
I could figure out how to do
this, but I was ironically a

604
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,680
little bit intimidated by the
tech.

605
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,200
You know, I didn't want to spend
like hours editing and I knew I

606
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:28,080
didn't have that kind of time to
dedicate, but I love the idea of

607
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,120
it.
So anyway, I got here, I started

608
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:35,560
doing the work and then was
invited on podcasts to speak.

609
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,760
And I hadn't ever been a podcast
guest, so I went on Nicole's

610
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,480
show.
I did add up Provost with

611
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:47,360
Gregor, my friend Gregor and you
know, I don't know, maybe half a

612
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,920
dozen other podcasts, some
mostly on that up platform, some

613
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,960
not on the Ed up platform and
had a had a blast.

614
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,360
And then actually started
talking with Nicole and Gregor

615
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,400
and said, like, how hard is this
to do?

616
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,640
What does this look like?
They introduced me to Alvin and

617
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,000
I sort of pitched him like, what
about add up innovation?

618
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,480
I'm doing all this work.
I'd love to kind of connect with

619
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,200
other people who are doing
innovative things in higher Ed

620
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,560
and learn from them and shine a
spotlight on them and celebrate

621
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,200
them.
And Alvin was like, yeah, do it

622
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,320
here, here's how you do it.
And, and kind of, and it was all

623
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,400
over e-mail.
He's still been sending me these

624
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,360
like go to Spotify, create this
account, send me the password,

625
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,000
do this, upload an image, record
a trailer.

626
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,720
And it, it, it happened like
overnight and boom, add up.

627
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:38,120
Innovation was born.
And so I made this dream list of

628
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,200
here, the guests.
I'd love to have principal

629
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,320
amongst them.
Or where people like Ben Nelson,

630
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:48,920
founder of Minerva University,
Paula Blanc, you know, from

631
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,680
Southern New Hampshire, Michael
Crowe, people who kind of

632
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,920
launched hyperscale
institutions, but also smaller

633
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,640
and lesser known people who are
doing really innovative things.

634
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,600
I wanted to find them and also
celebrate them.

635
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,600
And so kind of 1 by 1, I reached
out to them and they're like,

636
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,600
yeah, Brad, I'd love to come on
your show.

637
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,840
I would love to do this.
And so Ben was generous enough

638
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,720
to be my first guest and I can
and I really didn't know what I

639
00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:16,520
was doing, you know, at this
microphone.

640
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,320
I had turned around this way so
that the sound was super

641
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,160
terrible and recorded the whole
episode with awful audio.

642
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:30,120
And my son, Max, he's he was a
music technology major at

643
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:31,800
Temple.
Shout out to Max go.

644
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,160
Anyway, Max is a music
technology major.

645
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,000
And I said, listen, dude, I need
you to to edit my podcast.

646
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,400
I need you to put some music and
some graphics.

647
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,720
And when people screw up, I need
you to slice it out.

648
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:47,200
And he's like, yeah, dad, I can
do that.

649
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,560
And he said, you know, do you
think you can pay me?

650
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,080
And I said, I love that you're
asking.

651
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,920
I love that you're asking.
And also I'm going to remind you

652
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,360
that I pay your rent in New York
City.

653
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,800
And so if you don't want to be
homeless and living under a

654
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,720
bridge, you will edit my podcast
for free.

655
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,840
So he does and I'm super
thankful.

656
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,480
And so I just get to do the fun
part.

657
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:16,240
I just get to kind of have the
conversations and ship it off to

658
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:18,000
him.
And he he makes it look pretty.

659
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,920
And then we throw it up on
Spotify and.

660
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,040
I don't, you know, I'm not
trying to make any money.

661
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,960
I'm not trying to monetize.
I, I, I'm doing this because

662
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,000
it's a passion for me.
It's forcing me to read things I

663
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,200
wouldn't read.
It's, it's forcing me to have

664
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,280
conversations with folks that I
admire that I wouldn't otherwise

665
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,840
carve out time at 7:00 in the
morning to, to do so.

666
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,160
I love it.
It is my passion project and I'm

667
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:50,400
so thankful to, to Elvin and
Joe, you know, for, for helping

668
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:54,200
me launch it.
I think we have similar, similar

669
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,600
stories there.
I and Elvin is really, really

670
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:57,960
quick pace.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

671
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,080
You should do it.
You should do.

672
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,200
It.
Actually, Elvin was the one that

673
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,440
encouraged me to start my
podcast.

674
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,040
We used to work together and
when they, he and Joe started Ed

675
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,480
up, he was like, you should do a
podcast with Elvin.

676
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:12,920
I really like the idea.
I appreciate it.

677
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,320
I understand and, and this is
something that I think would be

678
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,000
interesting for me, but I said I
don't have the time.

679
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,520
It took a few few years to get
into the space.

680
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:27,960
But I, I also appreciate the bad
audio because you, you know, I

681
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,600
mean, you can understand that
starting at a startup

682
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:36,320
institution really and starting
a, a division or unit at in your

683
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:42,160
prior work is that a lot of it
is just paper clips and rubber

684
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:43,360
bands.
That's right.

685
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,120
That's right.
The passion and goodwill and

686
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,480
folks are figuring things out.
So you have to give yourself a

687
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,280
bit of grace.
Thank you.

688
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,080
At the same time, that's right.
So you've interviewed, as you

689
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,360
mentioned, many leaders from
across higher education.

690
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,240
Have there been conversations
that have fundamentally changed

691
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,480
the way you think about
innovation and can you shed a

692
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:11,760
light on any of those?
Yeah, I mean, so many.

693
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,320
I learned from every
conversation I have, right?

694
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,360
It's every conversation on add
up.

695
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,880
Innovation is a gift to me.
And I take something from from

696
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,600
everyone I've spoken with, you
know?

697
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,800
And in some cases, I've been so
blessed that some of these folks

698
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,240
are truly my heroes.
Like I've been following Ben

699
00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:35,240
Nelson since 2010.
Like I remember sitting in my

700
00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:38,360
kitchen in Buffalo, like
learning this guy is going to

701
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:43,120
found this tech tech giant is
going to found a university from

702
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,480
scratch and he's going to teach
students all over the world and

703
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,600
they're going to have multiple
campuses and they're going to

704
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:53,000
start and end in San Francisco.
So like literally for 15 years

705
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:57,080
I've been following this guy's
career and I really do admire

706
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,080
him and the vision to found
Minerva.

707
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,760
So that that very first
conversation really set the tone

708
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:07,520
for everything that was going to
follow.

709
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,000
I've I've also learned a lot
from Stratzy Kulinski.

710
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,880
He's the president at New U
University in Washington, DC and

711
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,480
Stratzy really pushed for
three-year degrees.

712
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,320
He was, he was the one, you
know, we talked earlier about

713
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,040
the, the teaching university
students with the rotation of

714
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:28,960
the crop cycle.
Why are we still doing this?

715
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:33,120
And he, he said, look, we're, we
can shave 25% off the time to

716
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,520
completion.
You'll have better success

717
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:39,560
rates, better opportunity, you
know, to get into the market,

718
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,600
lower the, the risk.
And, and so we're doing that

719
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:44,040
too.
At San Francisco Bay University,

720
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,280
we were one of the first
universities approved in

721
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,520
California to offer 90 credit
degrees.

722
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,040
So we, you know, our, our
bachelor's have a 120 credit

723
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:56,360
pathway and a 90 credit pathway.
So I've learned a lot from

724
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:03,080
Stratzy Brian Rosenberg, who
wrote the book, Whatever it is,

725
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,400
I'm against it.
Change resistance in higher

726
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:06,840
education.
I love that book.

727
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,520
And I heard him speak at a few
conferences and I, you know, I

728
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,720
loved my conversation with him
because he lived through the

729
00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:17,880
very traditional academia where,
you know, he was President

730
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:23,480
McAllister for like 18 years.
And he, he was able to move

731
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,800
forward in a very change
resistant system.

732
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:30,000
And so talking about change
resistance and how to punch

733
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,240
through change resistance to
still get things done and serve

734
00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:36,160
students, that was a really
rewarding conversation.

735
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,720
But really every, you know, I
love every episode.

736
00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:42,560
I really listen to, you know,
because I don't know if you do

737
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,000
that too.
I like hear things that God, he

738
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:46,480
was making that point.
That's amazing.

739
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,280
Next time I talk to him or her,
I'm going to I'm going to have

740
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:53,080
that conversation.
So yeah, it's really been just

741
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:56,600
so wonderful for me.
Yeah, I I agree with you.

742
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:02,680
So the podcast in some ways is a
less ongoing lesson for the host

743
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,160
for sure.
And as you mentioned, yes, your

744
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:09,480
son does the behind the scenes
editing, but you have to prep

745
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,360
for those interviews.
True reading.

746
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,760
Things that you probably hadn't
read before thinking about

747
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:21,360
exactly what is it that you want
to nurture in that conversation

748
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:26,040
that 3545 minutes?
Some folks have longer podcasts,

749
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:32,520
but you, you mentioned as you
were talking about the 90 credit

750
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:37,120
degree or three-year degree, it
made me think about in the back

751
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:42,160
of my mind, another argument
that's happening between college

752
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:49,000
for work and college for
individual and also our

753
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,720
community enlightenment and
uplift.

754
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:56,640
How what are your thoughts and
think about this world of

755
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,240
innovation?
Because I think in some ways

756
00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:01,600
that we're thinking about
college for work that

757
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,800
fundamentally changes how we
think about how you had.

758
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,680
It doesn't get at the point that
I actually love learning.

759
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:13,000
I love continuous growth and I
think almost all institutions

760
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:14,720
want students to be lifelong
learners.

761
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,080
Of course feel that.
So how do you balance that

762
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:23,600
between development and
transformation for individual

763
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,080
and their communities and this
idea of college for work?

764
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,480
Yeah, great, great, great
question, Jacob.

765
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:35,720
So at SSBU, you know, listen, we
sit in the middle of Silicon

766
00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:37,760
Valley.
Our degree portfolio is very

767
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,520
narrow.
We have degrees in business,

768
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:43,320
computer science, data science,
electrical engineering, business

769
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,360
analytics, like it's a very
tight almost Polytechnic type

770
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:49,320
portfolio.
We are expanding, we are adding

771
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,680
psychology next year and we're
going to continue to to kind of

772
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,360
mushroom out to maybe a dozen or
so degree options, but we're not

773
00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:00,360
going to have 80�� options like
many universities.

774
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,200
We're just going to have kind of
about a dozen and they are all

775
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,520
kind of career oriented in
nature.

776
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,480
That being said, I also think
that we need, we must graduate

777
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,920
students who are lifelong
learners and the conversation

778
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:19,320
around kind of learning for the
sake of learning to, to create

779
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:23,240
passionate lifelong learners
versus learning for career

780
00:47:23,240 --> 00:47:25,880
preparation.
I, I don't think it should, it

781
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:30,800
should be a both and solution.
And the, the tack that we've

782
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,360
taken at SFBU, again, we have
this blank slate.

783
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:34,640
So we could do whatever we
wanted.

784
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,760
Here's what we did.
If you look at the general

785
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,920
education requirements at most
undergraduate institutions, they

786
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,400
are the typical liberal Arts and
Sciences distribution model

787
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,520
where you have a category for
arts and a category for social

788
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:53,000
science and natural science and
math and writing and blah, blah,

789
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:54,840
blah.
And to the high school student

790
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,400
coming in, it looks like just
more of what they did for the

791
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,400
last four years, right?
OK, I'm taking chemistry, I'm

792
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,600
taking history, I'm taking, you
know, political science, I'm

793
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,840
taking statistics, I'm taking
math.

794
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:14,040
And they don't really see.
It's like a jigsaw puzzle where

795
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,560
they just get little pieces, but
they don't see the picture on

796
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:18,280
the cover of the box that
they're trying to put together.

797
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,360
That was the general education I
had at a very good liberal arts

798
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,000
school.
Probably you too.

799
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:28,840
You're shaking your head.
And maybe when I was 35, I

800
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,280
realized, Oh my gosh, like, this
is how these things fit

801
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,400
together.
This is the picture on the cover

802
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,160
of the box.
This is why I read the Belle of

803
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,880
Venetian War.
This is why I, you know, like

804
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,560
This is why I read Thucydides is
because I can.

805
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:43,840
It'll help me make meaning out
of the world we're living in.

806
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,160
It also taught me how to read,
study, and love learning.

807
00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:49,360
Not every student makes that
connection.

808
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,800
I became a professor like I'm,
I'm a rare read.

809
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,960
Most students just go on and
they become a data analyst and

810
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,600
they're like, well, you know,
archaeology or anthropology.

811
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:02,640
That was a total waste of time.
The general education we built

812
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,560
here endeavors to teach durable
skills.

813
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:09,280
And it's not a distribution
model where students pick from a

814
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,000
menu.
They, it's 10 courses that were

815
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,240
designed as a suite of 10
courses.

816
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,680
And students take every single
course and they all go together

817
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,960
and there's a through line
intentionally designed

818
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,920
throughout.
And they all have how to titles

819
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,720
so that the outcome is super
explicit to the student.

820
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:27,280
It's right in the title of the
class.

821
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:32,080
How to tell your story, how to
be creative with AI, how math

822
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,680
works in the real world, how
your brain works, how to lead,

823
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,960
how to make social impact.
These are the titles of the the

824
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,800
classes and they're purposefully
interdisciplinary.

825
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:47,280
And so we weave in the liberal
arts as context for the explicit

826
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:48,960
outcome that we want.
So when you're taking how to

827
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:50,720
lead, you're also learning about
history.

828
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,040
You know, when you take how to
tell your story, you're also

829
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:58,200
learning about writing.
When you take how to design your

830
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:00,400
life, you're also learning about
philosophy.

831
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,240
And so the liberal arts are
there, but they're there in the

832
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:07,680
context of these are the durable
skills that we want you to have

833
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:08,920
when you go out into the real
world.

834
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:13,800
And so we asked 45 of our
neighbors, Google, Apple, Tesla,

835
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,360
Meta, you know, the, the biggest
and the best companies in the

836
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,680
world, Amazon, FedEx, what's
important to you when you hire

837
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,760
an employee.
And we, we heard things like

838
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:26,600
they need to know how to
communicate and communicate in a

839
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,320
global context.
They need to know leadership,

840
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,040
they need to be resilient, they
need to be tenacious.

841
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,240
You know, these, these are the
characteristics that we, we

842
00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:38,080
heard.
And so we made those, the

843
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,000
learning outcomes of our general
education.

844
00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:46,040
So for us like to balance back
to your question, higher Ed for

845
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,960
job preparation or higher Ed for
kind of lifelong learning.

846
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,640
The solution is in the general
education if you have the

847
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:59,320
ability to design one from
scratch, that threads the needle

848
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,880
for the student.
So, Brett, I definitely

849
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,600
appreciate that and I think that
in itself is an innovation.

850
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:12,600
For sure, yeah.
I would bet that most students

851
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,240
would tell you they struggle
with, or let's put it this way,

852
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:21,600
they may not struggle outright,
but I think it's hard pressed to

853
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:26,880
go into a classroom and on a
regular routine basis have

854
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,720
faculty be able to articulate
how the course you took last

855
00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:36,080
semester connects to what this
course. 100%.

856
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,200
Though we see that in
traditional, we even see it in

857
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,600
doctoral programs, we see it
across Gen.

858
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:46,200
Ed where you probably are less
likely to see it are usually in

859
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,480
technical programs.
Right, right.

860
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,040
That's right.
The technical skills build 1 on

861
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:56,040
another, but outside of those
type of programs you, I mean

862
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,480
you're spot on.
Oftentimes is left to the

863
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,680
student to make those kind of
piece.

864
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,040
Piece together.
The puzzle thoughts together or

865
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,640
when you get to your senior
project, but you're working on a

866
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:11,000
particular topic and your
advisor then helps you to make

867
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,720
connections.
It's not until that late in the

868
00:52:13,720 --> 00:52:20,240
game and I I really, I think
it's quite sexy that the titles,

869
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:22,840
the title that your course is a
question.

870
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:24,880
It is sexy.
It is a sexy curriculum.

871
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,200
It's called the Agility Praxis
pathway.

872
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,680
That's the title of the agenda.
And so APP, all the courses are

873
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:34,880
APP one O 1, APP one O 2.
And that is what we want.

874
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:38,320
We want the students to have
Praxis, A practical experience.

875
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:42,280
These are again limited to 20
students, highly experiential.

876
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,800
So when you, if you were to peek
into one of those classrooms for

877
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,040
any one of those classes, what
you're going to see is not a

878
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:50,360
lecture.
You're going to see students up

879
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,800
writing on whiteboards, writing
on sticky notes, talking with an

880
00:52:55,880 --> 00:53:01,320
AI chat bot, creating their own
podcast, working in groups out

881
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,080
in the field.
You know, we took them all to

882
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:06,480
Muir Woods and we went through
the redwoods and they were

883
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,760
journaling.
You're going to see highly

884
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:13,600
experiential teaching and
learning in those spaces by

885
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:15,040
design.
And you're right that through

886
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:19,320
line is totally absent in the in
the typical higher Ed

887
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:21,800
undergraduate experience that if
you're teaching, you know,

888
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:26,320
political science one O 1, you
have no idea what that student

889
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,520
took before they came to your
classroom.

890
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,800
Maybe math is is about the only
sequential.

891
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,600
Like in order to take calc two,
you probably should have taken

892
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:36,360
calc one and before that
algebra.

893
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,280
And so that, you know, math is a
very kind of linear sequential

894
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:43,200
curriculum.
Everything else is a mess.

895
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:47,720
And our our curriculum is
designed to really curate a

896
00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:49,080
learning experience for the
students.

897
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:51,400
And there's a capstone at the
end of the genet.

898
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,560
And so when they graduate, they
have to synthesize everything

899
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:58,720
that they learned in the first
nine classes and actually launch

900
00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:01,400
a social movement and do
something that has a social

901
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:06,640
impact and measure it.
So we believe this is the right

902
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:11,160
approach to to kind of guide
students through the

903
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:13,920
undergraduate experience so that
when they graduate, they're both

904
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,240
job ready and they're lifelong
learners.

905
00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:19,320
They're great citizens.
You know, they, they really got

906
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:23,600
a holistic experience here.
So I just realized that we're

907
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,960
having an interdisciplinary
conversation.

908
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:30,440
We were talking about we are
their podcasts add up innovation

909
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:34,880
and we went right back into
describing the the sexy

910
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:36,200
curriculum.
Yeah.

911
00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:40,120
That's going to be the the
subtitle now, the agility Praxis

912
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:44,880
pathway quote, the sexy
curriculum close quote Jacob

913
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,400
Easley.
The second that's the we're

914
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:48,680
going to we're going to.
I'm going to change the website

915
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:50,720
immediately.
I love it.

916
00:54:50,720 --> 00:54:52,800
Well, it definitely draw some
new eyes.

917
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,480
Thank you for tuning in to Add
Up Accelerated Excellence, the

918
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,760
podcast for the advancement of
educational excellence and

919
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:07,080
equity.
And we would like to share 2

920
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:12,840
wonderful opportunities for
educators, policy makers,

921
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:19,200
advocates and scholars to engage
in community. 1st is with our Ed

922
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:23,200
up accelerated excellence.
Listening Tour because we

923
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:28,360
fundamentally believe that by
listening to others, we empower

924
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:33,640
the engine of transformation,
unlocking the hidden insights

925
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:39,400
that spark meaningful change.
This week, listen to a voice

926
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:44,040
that you often don't hear from
to seek out new insights about

927
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:48,400
educational excellence by equity
and share your thoughts via

928
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:56,040
voicemail at Add Up xe.com.
That's Add Up xe.com and your

929
00:55:56,040 --> 00:56:00,320
thoughts may be shared on air
through this podcast.

930
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:06,200
That's the XE listening tour at
Add Up xe.com.

931
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:11,720
In addition, Deans, directors
and faculty of educator

932
00:56:11,720 --> 00:56:16,120
preparation programs, we invite
you to submit nominations for

933
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:21,200
outstanding future teachers for
the Accelerated Excellence

934
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:26,000
Future Teacher Award.
Research informs us that

935
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:29,720
teaching is one of the most
rewarding professions and one

936
00:56:29,720 --> 00:56:32,960
upon which all others are
dependent.

937
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:39,640
So help us in elevating educator
preparation by nominating an

938
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:43,800
outstanding future teacher for
the Accelerated Excellence

939
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:49,120
Future Teacher Award 2020 Five
2026.

940
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:55,920
Find more details.
In the show notes speaking with

941
00:56:55,920 --> 00:57:00,400
Brad Fuster, who is Provost and
vice president for academic and

942
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:04,080
student affairs at San Francisco
Bay University, and he is the

943
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:07,080
host of Add Up Innovation
podcast.

944
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:13,120
So, Brad, for younger scholars
or junior scholars who might be

945
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:17,400
listening and they want to
become change agents in higher

946
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,720
education, what advice would you
give to them?

947
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,960
I would challenge some of the
assumptions that are built into

948
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:30,600
the machinery and I can I can
get, you know, if again, I'm

949
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,800
going to circle back to Brian
Rosenberg's book, whatever it

950
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:36,280
is, I'm against it.
Change resistance and higher Ed

951
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:43,200
higher Ed has systems that
reward change resistance, right?

952
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:47,440
Like there's actually mechanisms
in higher Ed that are are meant

953
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:51,360
to prevent change.
And so to the junior scholar out

954
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:54,760
there, if you know, if you're at
a university and you see a way

955
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:58,200
that you can serve students,
that is kind of outside the

956
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:02,160
norm, whether that is through
like a living learning community

957
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:06,840
or through any means to kind of
create multiple meaningful

958
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:10,200
relationships with students.
If there's an opportunity to

959
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,840
change the distribution of your
portfolio with teaching,

960
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,680
research and service, I would
encourage you to have those

961
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,160
conversations with the leaders
at your institutions.

962
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:25,480
And also every university has a
Center for teaching and

963
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,840
learning, right?
And that is usually a very safe

964
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:34,360
space for folks to have kind of
radically new ideas and bounce

965
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:38,280
around, you know, new concepts
in in teaching and learning.

966
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:42,880
And so if you're teaching a
class that is the typical 16

967
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,880
chapter textbook where you teach
a chapter a week and you just

968
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,800
read from the slides and it's
lecture, lecture, lecture,

969
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:53,800
lecture, one thing you do have
is academic freedom.

970
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:57,920
And so get rid of that textbook,
get rid of that yellow legal pad

971
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:01,720
from Graduate School that has
your lecture notes and try and

972
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,400
engage students in a way where
they are agents of their own

973
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,320
learning.
Students are not empty vessels

974
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:11,400
into which we pour knowledge and
they consume it.

975
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:13,840
That's how I learned, Jacob.
When you went to university,

976
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:18,840
that's probably how you learned.
That is not how learners are

977
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:20,800
approaching their education in
2026.

978
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:24,280
They have the entirety of the
world of knowledge in the palm

979
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:27,440
of their hands on their.
So what you need to do is not

980
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:31,640
really provide content, it's to
provide a learning experience in

981
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:35,040
which students can thrive and
learn their own content.

982
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:41,160
And that is a radical shift in
the way knowledge has been

983
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:43,640
transferred, right?
When I went to school, I

984
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:45,040
listened to the professor
lecture.

985
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:47,920
I wrote down important things.
I went to the library, read

986
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,240
books about it, quoted those
books and papers, submitted the

987
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:53,880
paper to the professor as
evidence of, hey, I've learned

988
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,280
something from your class.
He graded the paper.

989
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,960
I learned from that, we moved on
to the next class.

990
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:02,640
That is 100% like medieval
technology.

991
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:05,400
And we should not be teaching
that way anymore.

992
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:09,680
And so because you have academic
freedom, find ways to not do

993
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:13,160
that.
Any more fine, fine ways to get

994
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:15,920
the students out of there, off
their butts, out of their

995
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:22,840
chairs, actively engaging in
activities that create curiosity

996
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:27,840
for them, that force them to
consume something that they

997
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:31,760
wouldn't otherwise have read or
understood or become curious

998
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:32,480
about something.
What when?

999
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:36,240
Whatever it is, what's politics
or music or or education,

1000
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:40,600
whatever the topic is, spark
that curiosity through an

1001
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:44,280
experiential learning moment
that you've created for.

1002
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:51,000
That is absolutely beautiful
advice and I really like this

1003
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:56,360
idea of, and you're right, there
are structures that work against

1004
01:00:56,360 --> 01:01:01,760
the idea of innovation and you
will, what can I add to you?

1005
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:03,240
I mean, can I add to your risk
please?

1006
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:07,800
Yeah, welcome you too.
I think we have to also think

1007
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:12,720
about as metacognitively as
lifelong learners, and the one

1008
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:18,400
phrase that we should continue
to evaluate and resist saying is

1009
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,280
we've always done it that way.
It says the death.

1010
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:25,360
It's the death of any idea.
But we've always done it that

1011
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:25,680
way.
We've.

1012
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:27,680
Always done it that way.
It's, it's probably the, it's

1013
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:31,680
like nails on a chalkboard to
my, I just can't, I can't

1014
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:35,680
tolerate it.
You know, higher Ed is a, is a,

1015
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:38,680
is an ocean liner, right?
Like most universities are these

1016
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:43,600
big cruise ships that are so
slow to turn or change, you

1017
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:47,000
know, they're just just sat in
their pathway and they can't

1018
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:49,320
really swerve very far to the
left, to the right.

1019
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:52,840
There are some schools who have
built agility into the the

1020
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,800
process where they can be a
little speedboat and they can

1021
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:59,440
they can zip around and, and
change direction on a dime.

1022
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:02,160
And those are the schools that
are really going to thrive in

1023
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:04,560
this environment because higher
Ed is under fire.

1024
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:09,800
You know, my trip to Washington,
DC last month at ACEI heard

1025
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,000
Nicholas Kent, who's the Under
Secretary for the Department of

1026
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:16,320
Education, underneath Secretary
McMahon, underneath the

1027
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:18,560
President Trump.
And the message that they

1028
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:22,800
delivered the Department of Ed
delivered at, at ACE was you

1029
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:25,800
should move through the stages
of grief as quickly as possible

1030
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:30,320
and get from, you know, denial
to anger to acceptance.

1031
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:35,080
Because President Trump is the
is, is going to take apart the

1032
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:38,960
Department of Education and is
going to and in their words,

1033
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:43,640
return power to the states.
But really what that's cue for

1034
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:50,280
is, is to kind of decentralize
and disorganize higher Ed and

1035
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:53,480
remove support for really
critical programs like Hispanic

1036
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:56,320
serving institutions or DEI
initiatives.

1037
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:59,800
All of that stuff is that
machinery is being taken apart

1038
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:02,680
piece by piece in a way that I
don't think it will snap back.

1039
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:06,400
And I don't, I don't think
higher Ed should play the victim

1040
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,440
because as we've, we've talked
about in this episode, we have

1041
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:12,680
bad outcomes.
And you know, we should, we

1042
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:14,800
should look in the mirror and
say we can do some things

1043
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,080
better.
But higher Ed right now has

1044
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:21,000
never been under the microscope
as much as it as it's as it is

1045
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,640
currently.
And so to say we don't need to

1046
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:28,880
change and to say that we don't
need to innovate and to say that

1047
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,280
we don't need to kind of make
rapid decisions that serve

1048
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:33,240
students that that has better
outcomes.

1049
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:35,840
That's crazy.
In this environment, the schools

1050
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:39,160
that are able to innovate, that
are willing to innovate, that

1051
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:41,960
have the risk tolerance and the
political will are the ones that

1052
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:45,080
will survive.
What is a reckoning that's

1053
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:47,400
happening?
So there's there, it's like a

1054
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:49,760
triple whammy there.
You know, higher Ed is under

1055
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:51,680
fire because it has bad
outcomes.

1056
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:53,720
The funding model is falling
apart.

1057
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:56,840
So you're seeing universities
close in some cases, 2A week,

1058
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:02,480
sorry, two a month, No2 a week,
about 100 universities a year

1059
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,840
will close.
And then all this federal

1060
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:11,440
pressure to, you know, remove
the EI offices, to defund

1061
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:15,280
certain programs that higher Ed
really relied on and to strip

1062
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:17,240
research funding, which is
critical.

1063
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:23,160
So now is the time people like
now is the time to make change

1064
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:27,920
and to really get lean and mean
and have outcomes that that

1065
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:29,760
really serve your student
population.

1066
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:37,120
So Brett, thank you for that
helping us to look forward and

1067
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:41,600
speaking about looking forward,
what's next for you as an

1068
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:46,840
individual with the podcast at
of Innovation or for San

1069
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:50,560
Francisco Bay University that
you would like to share with the

1070
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:54,480
community and how might the
community engage with that work

1071
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:57,040
that's forthcoming?
Yeah, Thank you, Jacob.

1072
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:00,280
Both generous, generous
questions here.

1073
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:02,320
You know the podcast, I'm going
to keep doing it.

1074
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:04,080
I keep learning every day.
I love it.

1075
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:07,120
I have Paul LeBlanc coming on
from Southern New Hampshire to

1076
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,760
talk about AI.
Some other really cool guests

1077
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:14,040
lined up and across the sector
have folks working in Community

1078
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:16,320
College.
I have folks working at our ones

1079
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:20,680
and everything in between,
faculty presidents, people from

1080
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:24,200
associations.
So super excited to continue

1081
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:27,560
those conversations.
I may get a little more

1082
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:30,240
sophisticated with the tech now
that I'm I'm comfortable.

1083
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:34,120
I have about 20 episodes and I
have about 3000 followers on

1084
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:37,560
Spotify, so people are
listening, which is is

1085
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:41,080
flattering.
So super excited for that.

1086
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:44,120
I've also been doing a lot of
writing lately.

1087
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:48,120
Personally, I have a chapter of
a book coming out that's

1088
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:51,440
published on general education
that's published with my

1089
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:55,240
colleague Malia Spofford Xavier
from Kuka College on the Gen.

1090
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:58,600
Ed revision we did there in
collaboration with colleagues

1091
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:02,240
from Oregon State University.
So that's coming out pretty

1092
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:04,760
soon.
I've been asked to write the

1093
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:09,680
foreword to a book on
institutional effectiveness.

1094
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:12,640
It's a book specifically on
partnering with vendors.

1095
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:17,600
And, you know, writing the
foreword is really a gift

1096
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:20,000
because like, I get my name on
the cover of the book without

1097
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:23,840
having to write a chapter.
It's it's gets a guilty

1098
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:29,760
privilege.
And so KP Powers is also another

1099
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:34,320
at UP podcast.
So she hosts at UP institutional

1100
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:38,520
effectiveness asked me to write
the the forward to her book with

1101
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:42,240
my colleague David Chase here.
So I'm I'm super excited for

1102
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:46,000
that.
I'm working with a Dean at Colby

1103
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:52,400
Sawyer College in, in New
England to write an article on

1104
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:57,120
faculty who either through
course releases or other kind of

1105
01:06:57,120 --> 01:06:59,960
fractional buyouts are, are
moving into administrative work

1106
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:02,960
for a CAD.
So I'm, I'm writing another

1107
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:06,160
article there.
I've got an article right now

1108
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:08,640
that's being shopped around to
inside higher Ed and the

1109
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:12,600
Chronicle.
So probably 4 big publications

1110
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:15,240
coming out.
And, you know, for me

1111
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:17,760
personally, I, I've, I love
doing it.

1112
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:19,840
I love higher Ed.
I love thinking about it,

1113
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:22,400
talking about it, writing about
it, podcasting about it.

1114
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:28,200
You know, I love the work and
I'm really privileged to be able

1115
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:31,480
to come every day and think
about this stuff and write about

1116
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:34,560
it.
So that's what's on tap for me.

1117
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:37,440
The other, you know, the other
thing I want to talk about, I

1118
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:42,400
guess quickly is at SFBU as we
spoke about, I'm going to

1119
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:47,600
sometime in 2026, we'll make an
announcement that we're

1120
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:52,760
launching an online MBA and that
national scale.

1121
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:56,520
So all 50 states, maybe not
initially, but eventually all 50

1122
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:59,160
states.
And that NBA will be one of the

1123
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:02,520
most affordable in the country,
probably under $10,000 for the

1124
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:05,720
whole degree.
And it's going to use AI in a

1125
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:10,600
very unique way to really give
students a superior learning,

1126
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:15,440
you know, learning experience to
what a typical online degree

1127
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:17,800
has.
We've, we've put about 16,000

1128
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:23,520
human hours into the design of
this NBA and the AI tech that

1129
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:25,359
we're using is really cutting
edge.

1130
01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:28,720
Its proprietary and I think
students are going to love

1131
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:31,800
interacting with it so that, you
know, professionally that's

1132
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:33,640
where I'm spending an awful lot
of my time right now.

1133
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:39,680
So Brad Fuster, thank you, thank
you, thank you for this

1134
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:43,359
opportunity to learn with and
from you here at Ed Up

1135
01:08:43,359 --> 01:08:46,720
Accelerated Excellence, where we
seem to advance educational

1136
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:49,880
excellence and equity.
Jacob, thank you.

1137
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:52,359
It's been an awesome
conversation here at 7:00 in the

1138
01:08:52,359 --> 01:08:55,880
morning.
The sun has come up throughout

1139
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:57,920
the course of our conversation,
but it's a beautiful way to

1140
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:00,399
start the Friday.
I appreciate you your podcast,

1141
01:09:00,399 --> 01:09:03,680
the work you do shining a light
on folks who are committed to

1142
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:08,120
equity in in higher education.
And thank you Sir, for the great

1143
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:09,640
conversation.
Really appreciate it.

1144
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:13,560
Thank you for engaging with Edu
Accelerated Excellence, a member

1145
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:17,160
of the Edu Experience network of
educational podcasts.

1146
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:20,720
A special thanks to our research
assistant, Emma Worthington,

1147
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:24,040
APHD student of Fordham
University School Psychology

1148
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:26,040
Program, and we want to hear
from you.

1149
01:09:26,359 --> 01:09:29,680
If you have feedback on this or
other episodes or would like to

1150
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:34,520
nominate a guest, contact us
online at EDUP xe.com, where you

1151
01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:36,640
can leave an e-mail or a voice
message.

1152
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:40,520
That's at UP xe.com.
And we encourage you to

1153
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:44,040
participate in our XE Listening
Tour by listening to the

1154
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:47,319
educational stories of others
and sharing your thoughts with

1155
01:09:47,319 --> 01:09:51,640
us at EDUP xe.com.
You can find this and other

1156
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:55,760
episodes on Spotify,
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1157
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:58,920
YouTube, and other outlets where
you listen to your favorite

1158
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:01,520
podcasts.
If you like this episode, don't

1159
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:04,120
forget to follow us and share
within your network.

1160
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:08,960
To leave a comment or suggest a
guest, contact us online at EDUP

1161
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:10,200
xe.com.