Dr. Taha Duri—Leading Architecture & Design as a Social Tool at American University in the Emirates

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So while people have their
varied savage ways of of

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asserting their existence, at
the end of the day, what they

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want is a better life.
So one of the aspects of

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enjoying a better life is in
understanding the culture,

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empathizing with it, feeling
that it has something to offer,

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and then ultimately becoming a
designer for it because a

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designer.
And that goes back to the

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initial point of your question.
A designer is a designer.

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Doesn't matter if you're a
fashion designer, graphic

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designer, interior designer,
architectural designer, whatever

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the the creative fiber is 1 you
have an inkling if you want to

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sing it, if you want to dance
it, if you want to sculpt it, if

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you want to, you know, build it.
It's ultimately the same jolt of

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energy inside.
And design only teaches you how

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to channel it to the outside
world and teaches you that

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element of accountability we
discussed before.

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How, how can I communicate my my
feeling to you and lets you see

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it and as closely to what I
intend as possible.

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And if you don't understand,
it's my fault because I did not

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communicate it correctly, not
yours, because the audience is

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part of the creative.
This is Doctor Rosa Rivera

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McCutcheon, author of Radical
Care, Leading for Justice in

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Urban Schools, and you're
listening to Add Up Accelerated

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notes.
Welcome, welcome, welcome to Add

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Up Accelerated Excellence, the
podcast for the advancement of

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00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,400
educational excellence and
equity.

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I'm your host, Jacob Easley, the
second PHDPMP, and today's guest

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is Doctor Taha Doherty, who is
Dean of the College of Design at

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the American University in the
Emirates.

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AUE by So Don, can you?
Introduce yourself to the Add Up

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Accelerated Excellence.
Community by giving what's your

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name and give us sort of that
35,000 aerial view of what's top

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00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:07,000
of mind for you right now.
Thank you for having me, Doctor

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Jacob, and it's nice to be on
this podcast.

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I look forward to introducing
myself to you and your audience

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at the best capacity possible.
My name is Taha Duri, I am the

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Dean of the College of Design at
the American University in the

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Emirates.
And before that and after that I

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am a professional of
architecture and design.

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The reason why I don't say I'm
an architect is because back

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home you need to be a practicing
architect with a stamp to be

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able to call yourself that.
But my PhD was in architecture,

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history, theory and criticism
from the University of

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Pennsylvania.
My master was also in

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architecture from Pennsylvania
State University.

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And in the meantime, I've also
worked in the profession mostly

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in New York City and then
tri-state area.

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Most of my practice was at
Perkins Eastman, which is one of

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the large firms in New York City
right now.

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It's actually a global firm.
They have branches everywhere,

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including one in Dubai that I
helped set up back in 2007 and I

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continue to be in touch with to
date through, you know, engaging

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professionals, etcetera.
The thing that's on my mind most

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right now is how a designer
could reclaim their place in the

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world as a strategic thinker
rather than as a service

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provider.
I think that is something that

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needs to be reclaimed.
When we remember that the Prime

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Minister of Alexander the Great
was an architect, we realize how

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important architects were once
were, rather than a service

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provider for a client who has
capital, which is pretty much

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how it works nowadays.
That's absolutely brilliant.

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Thank you for that.
And we're just going to jump

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right into this.
So I but I do have to say we are

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Penn State.
That's great.

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Since we're both Penn State
graduates, I just had to get a

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shout out.
What first sparked your interest

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in architecture and design?
Primarily it was my artistic

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tendencies.
I've always painted and and drew

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since I as early as I can
remember, and I think that while

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people think that is a skill of
the hand, I think it's a skill

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of the mind and the eye.
It's the way you see the world

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and the way you can bring your
imagination to share it with

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others.
You mentioned equity, and I

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think one of the most equitable
aspects of design is feeling

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accountable to society.
The difference between art and

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design is that design is art
that works, so it is supposed to

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be addressed to a certain
audience.

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That's the aim.
When you're an artist, you can

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just unleash your imagination,
do whatever you want and if a

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person asks you what is this
about, you say it's what you

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see, plain and simple.
But in design you cannot do

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that.
You're supposed to meet society

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requirements, a certain
technical aspect and also a

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certain accountability to being
able to deliver your imagination

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to the other.
So what got me interested in the

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first place in architecture was
being able to get myself across

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to someone else where they can
say I see and actually mean it.

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So that was the initial spark
and it carried into a a lifelong

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interest basically.
That's actually brilliant,

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because I have not heard someone
refer to design in that way as

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art that actually works.
Actually, it, it does.

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And that's, see, that's the
thing when we teach our students

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to stand up and defend their
work or present it or

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communicate it, whichever way
you want.

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And depending on the audience,
obviously they get all flustered

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up, feeling all attached to the
work and feeling that they, it,

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it has just to be accepted
because I've been working on

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this for the past 48 hours and I
haven't slept, etcetera.

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The fact of the matter is that
no, ultimately a designer is the

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one accountable and is the one
who has to explain to the

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recipient, why does it matter
for us to define social

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structure to design?
Why do we need to enhance

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financial institutions?
Why do we need to look at

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educational institutions and and
reconsider the way they're being

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set up?
Why is it important to redefine

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entertainment facilities and
family facilities for safety?

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What does it mean when when you
create a public urban space that

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nobody uses and it turns into a
drug den or a crime den or

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something like that, and whose
fault is it?

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So these are all things that
translate into social

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accountability ultimately.
And the closer the designer is

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to the decision maker, I think
the better the world could be,

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frankly.
Yeah, I, I like that.

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You know, we had guests who are
in the development side of the

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House of Fundraising and they
echo almost exact same sentiment

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is you need to have close
connections with the community

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you're trying to serve.
So who's going to use this

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space, and how would they and
and how does it meet some

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fundamental need that encourages
them to use it?

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Yes, that would be the main
question.

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And then after that you have sub
questions.

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Why is the way I'm proposing
better than the way he or she

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are proposing?
Why is it worth investing that

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much money into it?
Why is it we're three shaping an

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entire city into another
reincarnation?

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Because this vision proposes
that kind of outcome.

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It's quite a complex discourse
actually.

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But ultimately, if you are close
and if you have the ear of the

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decision maker, and in this day
and age, a lot of it is also

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connected with political
economy.

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So if you have the ear of
somebody who, who also has the

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money to be able to fund those
ideas, then you could be

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instrumental.
And, but like we were you and I

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chatting a little bit ago, it's
a bit of a schism when decision

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making is away from the from the
average person, when the average

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person found themselves caught
in a situation where they, they

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did not really choose and they
were not consulted.

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So that that is, I think where
most of our modern day problems

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are.
You've worked across, of course,

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the US now in the international
context, particularly in

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academic systems.
How has the global perspective

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shaped your way of thinking
about the role of higher

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education in preparing students
in the world?

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And you can use architecture as
sort of the discipline, but you

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don't have to stick with that
discipline.

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Well, it has shaped it in
letting me realize that at the

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end of the day, and this will
sound really banal, but people

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are people ultimately.
And when you did are teaching

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students in Central PA or on
Long Island or in New York City

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or in Dubai, you find out that
the generational characteristics

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or appearances pretty much
remain the same.

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The influences are pretty
similar.

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However, this is when when one
first encounters this crowd and

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that crowd being in the US or
overseas, once one delves a

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little bit further into the
social structure and the value

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system, that's when differences
start to show their face.

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And the main, I guess, key to
handling that is to realize that

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those are factors that will
affect the way people react to a

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proposal, academic, social or
otherwise.

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So to understand as an educator
that all value systems are

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equally valid, but they are
different.

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And that may seem obvious, but
it's not.

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One must understand that
differences exist and ought to

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be honored.
How are they honored?

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And realizing that they are on
equal footing, that they have to

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be addressed with the same
degree of importance.

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This may be taken as me being
not exactly a globalist, and

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maybe I'm not, but that comes
from the angle that everybody

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anywhere in a certain setting is
equally valid.

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There is no template.
There's no one-size-fits-all.

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And if you're fortunate enough,
as I've been, to be in a

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position where you can influence
people in the US or all the way

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in the Middle East and carry
that responsibility and be aware

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of that consequence, then you'll
realize that if you honor the

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00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:29,560
fact that these people and those
people are equally engaged in

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their surroundings, but their
surroundings are fundamentally

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different, then I guess you
would have a better chance of

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success.
I'll give an example of that.

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00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,400
When I was starting the School
of Architecture and Design in

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Abu Dhabi for my previous
institution, we had to bring the

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00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,600
same curriculum that we teach in
New York, which was Cedar Cedar

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00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,600
accredited.
Cedar is the Council for

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Interior Design Accreditation.
It was an interior design

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program.
We had to take that structure

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and use it in Abu Dhabi, but
there are so many factors that

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simply would not work, from the
resources afforded to the

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students to the value system of
what's allowed and not allowed.

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Morally, ethically, religiously,
socially, in terms of gender

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00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,520
character, in terms of racial
character, in terms of religious

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imports, all of those things
that that curriculum had to be

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fine-tuned and we had to go into
every syllabus and reconsider

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certain aspects to make it fit
while never compromising the

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00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,760
standard of the New York
curriculum, which was tested and

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00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,040
tried and and ascertained and
accredited.

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00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,120
So that was a, a, a very
practical moment for me where

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00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,880
what I'm saying right now
stopped being a theoretical

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00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,440
outlook and became an actual
practical consideration with

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00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,080
measurable outcomes that I have
to present, for example, to the

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00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,280
Ministry of Higher Education and
prove that I'm teaching a, a

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00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,840
curriculum that is suitable for
Abu Dhabi, even though it was

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00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,560
conceived in New York.
So that is the kind of

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00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,360
experience that I wish on
everyone who actually teaches.

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00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,640
And not everyone gets the
chance, but it's AI.

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00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,200
Someone who does is definitely
fortunate.

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00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,760
So what you, you're saying in so
many ways is that context does

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00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,360
matter.
And so folks are different by

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00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:27,440
virtue of culture, history,
location, resources.

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00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,800
Those are, I mean, irrefutable
issues.

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00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,280
You can't just say that, you
know, it's less value because in

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00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,600
that particular context it
works.

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00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:42,080
And that's how people sustain
themselves with these resources.

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00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,640
And so I, I, I appreciate the
idea of this valuing all of

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00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,600
those different voices the the
task we call.

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00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:56,440
How do we value them in a design
approach or for an outcome.

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00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,520
So Speaking of which, as the
Dean, you are shaping the next

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00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,440
generation of designers and
creative thinkers.

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00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:09,599
So thinking about design, what
vision guides your leadership in

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00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:13,800
the school with these multiple
students from different

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00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:18,280
backgrounds coming to you and
who are going to be deployed in

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00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,040
different contexts when they
leave you?

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00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,560
And so you talked about the
tensions of using AUS based

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00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:30,200
standard standards, but then
recognizing how to facilitate

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00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:35,600
local contextual sensitivity.
So what is designed for college

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00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:41,600
with diverse students?
Diversity in a place like Dubai

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00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:48,640
is a matter of fact.
Dubai has a population that's

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00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,400
based on opportunity and
economy.

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00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:54,760
So people here come from all
over the world.

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00:17:55,200 --> 00:18:00,640
Students are either born here or
came here with their parents.

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00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:04,360
But on on both accounts, they're
probably expatriates.

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00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:10,280
There are locals, UAE nationals,
but the UAE nationals, first of

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00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,440
all, they could have their
education subsidized.

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00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:13,960
And I work at a private
university.

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00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,240
So unless they have a personal
reason why they should pay, they

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00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,880
would probably go elsewhere.
But yet even those who come to

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00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,040
the university, they would pick
something other than design.

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00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,000
Design is a is a nascent culture
here.

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00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,680
It's not something that has
existed as long as law or

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00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:36,520
business or, you know, well,
there are no other new models

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00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,680
like like global studies and
security and and colleges like

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00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,360
that.
But but the obvious types of

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00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:45,760
medicine and law and business
have existed long before people

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00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,440
knew what people do at a design
college.

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00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:53,520
So in a place like design, there
is a much stronger connection

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00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,840
between or there should be a
stronger connection between the

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00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,760
student and the the place, the
environment and the culture.

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00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,720
In a place where everybody
speaks English and there is no

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00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:10,200
tangible need to to speak the
local, local language, people

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00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,600
find it too easy to just not
learn Arabic.

283
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,520
I take issue with that because
while you are able to order a

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00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:24,120
takeout and and shop at the the
latest and greatest mall and go

285
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:28,280
to the cinema and do whatever
people do, you will not be able

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00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:32,680
to understand public address.
You will not be able to read

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00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,480
newspapers even if they're
online.

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00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,160
You will not be able to
understand the nuances of the

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00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:42,400
news to be able to comprehend
the value system that is

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00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,800
probably very, very foreign to
the way one grew up.

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00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:53,240
So those details are essential
even to the level of joy that

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00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:54,880
you take in being in a certain
place.

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00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:59,920
I do believe that ultimately
life is about enjoyment and and

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00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:03,920
anything that hurts or bothers
is not worth undertaking.

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00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:05,960
Frankly.
I know that will sound a little

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00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,280
bit frivolous, but it's not at
the end of the day.

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00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,720
Even the greatest of conflicts
that people go through

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00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,640
essentially is professed to be
about having a better life

299
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,360
somehow.
So while people have their

300
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,920
varied savage ways of of
asserting their existence, at

301
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,800
the end of the day, what they
want is a better life.

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00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:30,120
So one of the aspects of
enjoying a better life is in

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00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,600
understanding the culture,
empathizing with it, feeling

304
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,760
that it has something to offer,
and then ultimately becoming a

305
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,600
designer for it.
Because a designer.

306
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,960
And that goes back to the
initial point of your question.

307
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,880
A designer is a designer.
Doesn't matter if you're a

308
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,520
fashion designer, graphic
designer, interior designer,

309
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:55,400
architectural designer, whatever
the the creative fiber is 1 you

310
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,000
have an inkling if you want to
sing it, if you want to dance

311
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,760
it, if you want to sculpt it, if
you want to, you know, build it.

312
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,200
It's ultimately the same jolt of
energy inside.

313
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:10,040
And design only teaches you how
to channel it to the outside

314
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,400
world and teaches you that
element of accountability we

315
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,240
discussed before.
How, how can I communicate my,

316
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:20,440
my feeling to you and lets you
see it and as closely to what I

317
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,520
intend as possible.
And if you don't understand,

318
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,920
it's my fault because I did not
communicate it correctly, not

319
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,680
yours, because the audience is
part of the creative process.

320
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:38,440
I'll give a a historic example.
When the colonizers of Europe

321
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,920
first went to Africa, they were
looking for the seat of

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00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,640
government, which is a a palace
or a house where the world sits,

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00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,440
ruler sits.
They couldn't find 1.

324
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,280
So what was the instant
conclusion?

325
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,040
OK, these are primitive people
who don't have a seat of

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00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,120
government.
Of course it couldn't be further

327
00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:56,680
from the truth because the way
things ran, especially in

328
00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,480
Central Africa going South, was
that the ruler ruled from their

329
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,760
house and if someone else took
power, their house becomes the

330
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,840
seat of government.
It's a transient, in fact far

331
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,080
more forward-looking approach to
government than having a house

332
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,320
to which the ruler needs to move
and live in there.

333
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:19,920
So it's much more, much less
contrived, more organic, closer

334
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,280
associated with the fabric of
those ruled.

335
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,920
And ultimately it's a completely
different model of government

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00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,600
that those coming from Europe
did not even understand.

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00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,480
But they concluded what they
concluded and we know the

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00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:36,000
result.
So ultimately, unless we realize

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00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:40,160
that all value systems are on
equal footing, respecting the

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00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,760
fact that they are different and
that if you're designing for a

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00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,520
certain environment, you need to
empathize with it and feel it in

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00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,920
order to work with it, then
there would always be a problem

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00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,320
of having something that, you
know, end up with something like

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00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,560
the international style of the
early 20th century, which was,

345
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,520
it looked like spaceships in the
middle of, of, of India and

346
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,720
Brazil and everything else.
And you know, may some may bid

347
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,680
to differ, But again, this is a
matter of of discourse.

348
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,320
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Find more details in the show
notes.

357
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,560
We're speaking with Doctor Taha
Doherty, It's Dean of the

358
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,960
College of Design at the
American University in the

359
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:11,240
Emirates, Eau Dubai.
And Todd, you have spoken about

360
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,520
balancing tradition and
innovation in higher education.

361
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,880
How do you approach that balance
in design education,

362
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,560
specifically tradition and
innovation?

363
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:30,680
There is a common approach that
I grew to take exception to,

364
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,680
which is that if you want to
design something and to suit a

365
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,880
certain culture, you look at the
way it's been done before and

366
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,920
you try to understand the
elements of style and you

367
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:49,160
basically copy them.
So if you work in a in a culture

368
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,560
where they use arches, you
design with arches in the facade

369
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:58,040
of the building.
If you have the triumphal, the

370
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,760
classical triumphal arc
arrangement, you do that.

371
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:05,240
If you have domes, you do domes.
But that is not the way it is.

372
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,000
It is more sustainable or more
forward-looking.

373
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,600
I think the approach to sedition
comes from program.

374
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,720
Program means the arrangement of
spaces in a building, or even

375
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,800
outside of a building in an
urban setting.

376
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:26,480
The way design elements, which
are the spaces that people use,

377
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,800
are arranged, coordinated at the
level of the way they look, each

378
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,840
space separately and the way a
space relates to the other.

379
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,400
Why do I think this is the
point?

380
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,840
I think this is the point
because that is how people

381
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:43,000
relate to one another.
How your sense of privacy as a

382
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,840
people relates to another more
open culture.

383
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:51,320
If this is a culture that that
values its privacy or if it's a

384
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,400
culture that's in an ultra hot
climate where your houses tend

385
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,560
to look inward rather than look
at the street, we find many of

386
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,920
the traditional homes in a in a
city like Damascus.

387
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:08,040
Damascus is the oldest city on
earth that has been continuously

388
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,600
populated since the way it was
date was built to date with no

389
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,240
interruption.
In Damascus, the traditional

390
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,200
homes look at an inner
courtyard.

391
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,560
While this is generally a
Mediterranean approach, at the

392
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,040
same time, what sets Damascus
apart from everywhere else is

393
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,400
that when you're on the streets,
they could be very narrow and

394
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,360
plain.
But the minute you open a door

395
00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:35,880
inside a house, you we move into
a paradise of chirping birds,

396
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:40,960
flowers of all colors, trees,
you know, water features, just a

397
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,760
very different environment that
you say, why didn't that show

398
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,960
itself to the street?
Because this, the value system

399
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,400
of that society is not about the
streets, it's about the family.

400
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,840
So another culture might look at
that as insular or antagonistic,

401
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,160
but again, that's measured
against the a foreign template.

402
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,520
But if you accept it within the
template of its own social

403
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,240
structure, you find that this
could be an indigenous or

404
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,640
traditional home.
As a modern day designer, you

405
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:15,440
may not carry the same
vocabulary such as the tiles

406
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,680
used or the shapes used or the
openings of the windows,

407
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,920
etcetera, but you may maintain
the program of the space

408
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:27,960
accordingly so that people can
enjoy their value system in a

409
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:33,720
modern house that still
maintains the spirit of a a

410
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,000
local family.
Somebody in the UAE once said to

411
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,640
me, I said, I said I don't
really find UAE nationals to be

412
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,720
socializing broadly with
expatriates.

413
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,240
Why is that?
And she said something that was

414
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:51,760
extremely insightful to me.
She said we cannot just go out

415
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,400
and live the way they do because
we have customs and traditions

416
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,000
that govern the way we conduct
ourselves in our day.

417
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,440
By the same token, we cannot
really shackle them and force

418
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,400
them to way to live the way we
live because to them it will

419
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,920
feel like a shackle, while to us
it's who we are.

420
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:13,000
So that and results and, and
basically live and let's live

421
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,400
approach, which is actually
quite successful if you ask me,

422
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,240
having having lived here for for
a number of years.

423
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,720
And I know how that works.
But ultimately it's can you

424
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,640
coexist?
Yes, you can.

425
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,360
And how do you approach
tradition with modernity?

426
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:33,040
By taking the elements of the
program of living the way you

427
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,840
arrange your rooms, the way you
arrange your spaces, even go out

428
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,320
to the public spaces in an urban
setting, who can go where and

429
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,960
when without bothering someone
else?

430
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,640
What's a family space?
What's a what's a bachelor space

431
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,240
or an open space to all?
After a while, you start

432
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,600
realizing that the city does
have that fabric and you know

433
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,120
where to go and when.
Kind of like being street smart

434
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,400
in New York City, but in a very
different outlook.

435
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,880
It's more like society smart.
We're not talking about crime.

436
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,000
We're talking about social
values and and social propriety

437
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,480
and that is actually a main task
that a designer has to keep in

438
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,000
mind at all times and an
educator has to instill in their

439
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,360
students from the beginning of
first year so that they can they

440
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,040
can heed it anytime they have a
project, they can actually have

441
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,120
that in insight as they approach
this.

442
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:30,480
So and as you, as you describe
this balance in my mind, I kept

443
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,720
thinking of the word equity,
particularly around social

444
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,120
variances or difference in
groups and how people coexist

445
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:44,880
and with some semblance of
harmony without, without being

446
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,480
an opposition to one another.
That is extremely visible in a

447
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:55,640
place like Dubai.
And even though Dubai boasts

448
00:29:55,640 --> 00:30:01,960
some of the most modern lavish
plush buildings and spaces and

449
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,040
facilities, especially when you
go into the hospitality sector

450
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,920
where a five star hotel in in
New York probably wouldn't make

451
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,280
it to three stars if you compare
it to what they have in Dubai.

452
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,920
Even though that is the case in
Dubai, what you just described,

453
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,080
which is the equitable
coexistence is best seen in the

454
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,600
older part of Dubai.
There is there is an area called

455
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,760
Sukh Nayef, which means Nayef's
Market, and that's a place where

456
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:37,680
you can get the most splendid
fabrics, spices, goldsmithery,

457
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,200
that kind of thing.
If you walk on the street in

458
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,120
that part of town, you will see
everything and anything

459
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:50,520
coexisting in the most
harmonious way imaginable with

460
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,320
no nothing infringing on
anything.

461
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,760
It's very strange and actually
one best understands it by

462
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,600
experiencing it not only to the
types of food, not only the

463
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,760
types of dress and costume, not
only the languages, not only the

464
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:09,080
ways people look and act and
behave, but how everything is

465
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,800
beyond colorated.
It's actually celebrated almost,

466
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,520
you know it.
It coexists in a way that that

467
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,080
with time has become more
integrational that you, that

468
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,880
when you need something, you
know where to go to get it and

469
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,600
from which group of people
because they are best at it.

470
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,480
So it becomes multiple
resources, all serving,

471
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,400
enriching the the the place and
the experience.

472
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:37,080
And that's quite nice, actually.
Yeah, I, I, I can see that

473
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,800
visually.
So I want to go back to the

474
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:46,280
comment you're making just prior
about on the educative approach

475
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,200
for students.
But how do you ensure that

476
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,000
students develop not only the
technical skills for design, but

477
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,080
also critical thinking and and
ethical awareness, which is

478
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:57,480
really what we're talking about
now.

479
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,480
So we talked about the word of
equity, but in this case,

480
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:05,680
ethical awareness and critical
thinking along with technical

481
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:10,800
skills of design.
A design curriculum usually has

482
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,160
a, a, a vertebral column, a
center to it.

483
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,720
That center to it is what we
call it a studio sequence.

484
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:22,080
So you a student learns a number
of technical skills and computer

485
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:27,160
and construction documents and
building methods and codes and

486
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,760
regulations and, and writing for
for design, etcetera.

487
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:35,960
And then they get a chance to
meld all of that into a design

488
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:40,560
scheme during design studio.
I've taught design studio from

489
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,480
foundations all the way to to a
senior thesis.

490
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:49,760
And in every one of these I made
a point of there being a strong

491
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,000
research component in the
studio.

492
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:57,320
So every studio actually begins
with a number of weeks given

493
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:02,400
exclusively to research.
That research is usually I try

494
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,040
to structure an outline because
a lot of students don't even

495
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,960
know where to start.
So to give them an idea of what

496
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,360
it is that we expect and why.
But it's it's been rewarding in

497
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:16,080
other ways is that the student
will come in and say, well, you

498
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,360
know, you asked us to do such
and such and such.

499
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:23,800
But I also think that that area
is relevant and, and what about

500
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,240
I, I went into the, the site
where or our building is and I

501
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,960
found that the, the, the
building is falling apart.

502
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,840
Maybe I should look into local
construction systems to, to find

503
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,120
out how I can augment these
walls to make them stand up

504
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,280
because they look like going to
fall apart and I want to keep

505
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,840
them, You know, that area seems
to be extremely hot and humid

506
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,440
and I don't want to be using a
lot of electricity.

507
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,600
Is there a way that people have
been doing this over the years,

508
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,240
even before electricity?
What did they do before to make

509
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,560
this possible?
So the research tends to branch

510
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,560
out and people come back with
their own ideas as to how they

511
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:03,480
want to implement this that will
actually create that sort of

512
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,040
ethical or environmentally
responsible approach.

513
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:16,960
Right now I'm actually editing a
book for for a series by, by

514
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:21,040
Springer and it's going to be
later on this year in in Italy

515
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,760
for a conference body called
IREC, which are they?

516
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,760
They are centered in Egypt, but
they work all over Europe and,

517
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:35,719
and all over the world.
And the, the book chapter that I

518
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,480
am writing is actually about the
ethics of sustainability.

519
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,880
It's about the theory and the
philosophy of sustainability.

520
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,199
And I'm trying to argue, which
is something that has been

521
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:48,239
established, but I'm looking at
it from a certain angle, that

522
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,400
sustainability, which is a very
trendy modern day world and

523
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,560
everybody's chewing it all the
time and, and presenting it as

524
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,360
the, as the, as the key to, to
happiness is really not a new

525
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,000
notion that it goes back to the
18th century.

526
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,360
And people have not really used
the word, but they all but spoke

527
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,800
about it.
And ultimately, it comes from an

528
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,680
ethical responsibility by
humankind to their environment

529
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,280
that if you are not acting as
though you are actually

530
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:21,840
accountable for how well your
environment pans out, then

531
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:27,200
ultimately it will collapse on
all our heads, which we we see

532
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,680
inklings of every once in a
while when when that notion is

533
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:36,880
is relegated to to the side in
favor of of other more

534
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,600
lucrative, you know, struggles
in life.

535
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,680
So, but essentially that is one
of those notions that are going

536
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:48,480
to persist with us.
And I try to let my students

537
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:54,680
know that their history and
theory component and their

538
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:01,600
curriculum, which is what is
actually the way to move into

539
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,920
the future, that that the the
further you want to go into the

540
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,280
future, the further you need to
delve into the past.

541
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:16,040
So looking ahead 10 years from
now and we're right now in some

542
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,360
challenging times, particularly
higher education and I'm going

543
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:25,920
to use the US as one their
complaints about the cost of the

544
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:32,640
rising cost of education, the
dismantling of DEI in the US

545
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,120
context.
And I know you you it's the

546
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,840
American University there in
Dubai.

547
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:44,200
What changes do you believe were
most in it's the future of

548
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,640
design education, and how do we
prepare for those changes?

549
00:36:53,880 --> 00:37:04,640
One of the most ubiquitous
things I hear in response to to

550
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:09,760
anything of that nature would be
how things are now different

551
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,120
because we have artificial
intelligence and how artificial

552
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:18,200
intelligence will will cancel a
lot of the jobs and how

553
00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:22,600
etcetera, etcetera.
I tend to actually believe that

554
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,160
the problem lies in this
outlook.

555
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:34,080
Specifically, I think artificial
intelligence as it is a is

556
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:39,320
actually a prototyping tool.
Ultimately, what sets artificial

557
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:45,120
intelligence apart from, say,
search engines 10 or 20 years

558
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,880
ago, which it which was the the
beginning of big data, is that

559
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:56,280
artificial intelligence is
capable of garnering cumulative

560
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:02,640
knowledge, reorganizing it, and
producing projective models.

561
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,880
It could suggest to you what not
only the future would look like,

562
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,800
but what hypothetical situations
would look like, what parallel

563
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,680
situations would look like, and
what potential situations would

564
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,320
look like.
Aristotle called that poetry.

565
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,600
He said the difference between
history and poetry is that while

566
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,520
history chronicled what
happened, poetry spoke about

567
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,680
possibilities.
What happens if of man married

568
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,840
God and what happens if if you
know, we had wings and flu and

569
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,840
this is what AI is doing
nowadays, except and by

570
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:43,760
different means.
However, both Aristotle and

571
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:48,080
artificial intelligence derive
their content from the human

572
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:49,880
mind.
So there is no replacing the

573
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:57,640
human element and artificial
intelligence, as potent as it

574
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:03,720
is, as important as it is as
instrumental in reducing error

575
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,640
in many areas and cutting back
time, essentially, it will

576
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:16,600
retract back to its normal place
in history and in geography.

577
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,640
It's it's in a bubble right now.
It's in a big fancy point.

578
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,880
It's the new toy, and it's a
great toy at that.

579
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,800
I'm not by any means suggesting
that it is less than what it is.

580
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,800
However, our perception of it
should not really be.

581
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,080
We shouldn't be dazzled by the
light.

582
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:36,760
We shouldn't be blinded by the
lights.

583
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:41,360
We should keep in mind that, and
this is something about going

584
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,560
back in history to to look back
into the future.

585
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,720
Nothing ever replaced anything.
You know when, when, when cinema

586
00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:50,720
started, people said radio is
dead.

587
00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:54,280
And then when television came
in, people said cinema's gone.

588
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,480
And then when digit digitization
and Kindle came up and everyone

589
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,480
said paper is dead.
And no, nothing ever replaced

590
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,920
anything else.
And people will always find

591
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:12,240
emotional gratification in part
of our cumulative heritage.

592
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,160
And for as long as you have an
audience for something, that

593
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,720
something will survive.
Things live as long as the

594
00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:24,720
underpinning idea lives.
That's why, for example, faith

595
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:27,200
lives for so long, even though
it makes no sense

596
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,760
intellectually.
It's faith, It's a it's a

597
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:34,120
completely separate fiber, but
we hold on to it because it is

598
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:35,720
something that makes our life
better.

599
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:37,880
We go back to the point that
ultimately we need to live a

600
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:42,520
better life somehow.
So faith lives, paper lives,

601
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:47,160
radio lives, cinema lives,
television lives, and artificial

602
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,720
intelligence will find its place
in that big library of human

603
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:53,120
output.
But I don't think it's actually

604
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:54,680
bound to replace anything,
frankly.

605
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,240
You know, that's interesting.
Interesting because we are now

606
00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:04,400
producing you and I together a
podcast episode, and that seems

607
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,600
like this marriage between radio
and television in some ways,

608
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,520
which existed in the past, they
still exist.

609
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,520
But think about.
History and now the future.

610
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,720
Looking at the future, who would
imagine that the communication

611
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:22,560
we would we would be on a
device, but we're still

612
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,400
communicating through audio and
video.

613
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:29,880
Yes, and and you know something,
what is more radio than

614
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,480
podcasts?
I mean, we are still producing

615
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:38,080
radio and in fact podcast or
radio or whatever you want to

616
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:44,200
call it is more horizontal and
more democratic and more

617
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,160
available now and consumed now
than it ever was.

618
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:52,640
Because now anybody with thought
and with with presentation is

619
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,320
capable of doing that.
Before you have to work for BBC

620
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,560
or you work for, for whichever
big radio station to be able to,

621
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,640
to have your voice heard.
Now you and I have something to

622
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,480
share are capable of doing that
and and then sharing it.

623
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,320
And this is really a progress
and some in a medium that people

624
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,120
20 years ago said it's going to
be dead because now we have

625
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,280
television or something, and
it's just not true, you know?

626
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,640
I, I, I just appreciate the fact
that you're reminding us of the

627
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:27,080
value of the human mind and the
human spirit in this world of

628
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,400
innovation as we and, and
progress, as we like to call it.

629
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:36,360
But it all does come from, from
in many ways, these innovations

630
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,920
through the human experience.
Some of them may be creating

631
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:45,240
harm these innovations with
some, or we might think that

632
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,480
it's an innovation for good in
one context that is ultimately

633
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,560
having perhaps a negative impact
to somewhere else, either

634
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:59,480
locally or across the world.
Thank you for tuning into Add Up

635
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,760
Accelerated Excellence, the
podcast for the advancement of

636
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:04,960
educational excellence and
equity.

637
00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:11,040
And we would like to share 2
wonderful opportunities for

638
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:16,160
educators, policy makers,
advocates and scholars to engage

639
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,040
in community.
First is with our Add Up

640
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,640
Accelerated Excellence Listening
tour, because we fundamentally

641
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:30,440
believe that by listening to
others, we empower the engine of

642
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:35,120
transformation, unlocking the
hidden insights that spark

643
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:40,000
meaningful change.
This week, listen to a voice

644
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,640
that you often don't hear from
to seek out new insights about

645
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,360
educational excellence or
equity, and share your thoughts

646
00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:56,640
via voicemail at Add Up xe.com.
That's add up xe.com and your

647
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,960
thoughts may be shared on air
through this podcast.

648
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:06,800
That's the XE listening tour at
Ed up xe.com.

649
00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:12,320
In addition, Deans, directors,
and faculty of educator

650
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,680
preparation programs, we invite
you to submit nominations for

651
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,800
outstanding Future Teachers for
the Accelerated Excellence

652
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:26,560
Future Teacher Award.
Research informs us that

653
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,320
teaching is one of the most
rewarding professions and one

654
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,560
upon which all others are
dependent.

655
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:40,280
So help us in elevating educator
preparation by nominating an

656
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:44,400
outstanding future teacher for
the Accelerated excellence

657
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:49,680
Future Teacher award 2020 five
2026.

658
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,200
Find more details in the show
notes.

659
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,480
We know that you.
Besides your academic

660
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,400
leadership, you are an artist
with exhibitions in cities like

661
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:08,680
New York, London and Dubai.
How is artistry and the practice

662
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:13,600
of artistry important to you,
and how does it influence the

663
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:18,960
way you teach and lead?
I can't say how important it is

664
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:20,480
to me.
It's beyond words.

665
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:26,040
It's the ultimate investment in
one's own emotions.

666
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:31,600
It's the ultimate guard against
trespasses, frankly.

667
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,920
You know, we all have all sorts
of positive and negative

668
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,680
impulses.
When you're able to pour them

669
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:42,320
into an artwork, they you're
shielding yourself from there

670
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,160
becoming something else and from
harming yourself or harming

671
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:50,040
others.
Art for me is a process when I'm

672
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,760
working on a painting and I, my
paintings tend to take a long

673
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:57,360
time because I like figurative
art and I'm obsessive about

674
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,200
details.
So 11 painting could take up to

675
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,840
six months of work.
And for me, it's like going on a

676
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:05,880
date.
I come back home from work and

677
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,120
I'm looking forward to pick up
the canvas and I work with oil

678
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:13,000
mostly and, and work on that
painting again.

679
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,600
And by the time it's finished,
there's always a part of me

680
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:18,960
that's sad because it, it's done
already.

681
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,560
And I, I'm I can't wait to start
on something else.

682
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:27,880
And now I don't do it as
frequently and as intensely as I

683
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:30,120
would like because of the work
that I do.

684
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,080
And working in education tends
to be consuming both

685
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:37,160
intellectually and physically.
But I never stopped painting and

686
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:41,320
I haven't over the years.
And that is a lifeline for me in

687
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,760
terms of how it affects the way
I teach.

688
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:53,320
Actually it, it put me in a
mindset where I'm, I think I am

689
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:57,840
more accepting of the
eccentricities of my students

690
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:05,320
than if I were not an artist.
Once I did a show and it was in

691
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:09,880
Dubai and I had some of those
drawings I did in ink about war

692
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,560
art.
I basically was, you know, I

693
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,360
watch the news and I see the
demolition and the destruction,

694
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,360
etcetera.
And I did a series of drawings

695
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:23,840
inspired by the, if we could
call it the aesthetics of

696
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,880
destruction.
And a journalist asked me, she

697
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:32,280
said, what do you advise artists
in times of political

698
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:36,200
instability?
And my response to her was

699
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:40,600
artists do not need advice.
I, I wish politicians would

700
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:44,280
listen to them.
I think I said, I think artists

701
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:48,120
are the most forward-looking in
any society.

702
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,200
And that's, I'm not saying that
out of my prejudice because I'm

703
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:57,600
into the arts, but because even
if you look at the way things

704
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,920
are produced, you will find that
art comes first, followed by

705
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:06,760
utilitarian endeavors such as
architecture and, and, and, and

706
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,680
city planning and, and urban
design and all these things.

707
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,720
And then ultimately you get to
the politicians at the end of

708
00:48:15,720 --> 00:48:18,120
everything.
So the most courageous and

709
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,440
cavalier and and forward
thinking is the artists.

710
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:22,880
I said they don't need my
advice.

711
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,760
Actually.
We are visually and pictorially

712
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,480
depicting the travesties of our
world for the people for the

713
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,880
world to see.
And maybe maybe if they see what

714
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,840
an ugly reality they've created,
they might think about creating

715
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,080
something better if they can.
And so.

716
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:44,840
I like that through line art,
utilitarianism, then the sort of

717
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,760
the political nature and then
the political nature often tells

718
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:56,000
us, oh, that art is acceptable
or is unacceptable and we now

719
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:00,840
need to rally against whatever
that are the art form is, I

720
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:05,360
think.
Yeah, I definitely think that

721
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:10,240
that they, you know, the artists
ultimately is someone who I

722
00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:13,480
mean, they, they, they're,
they're people dwell on the

723
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,000
eccentricity of it.
But I think there's a lot more

724
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:21,840
to it in terms of truth than the
grown-ups in the room such as

725
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,320
the politicians and those would,
would allow it to be.

726
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:30,160
You know, they, they all run,
run back and on the weekends and

727
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,280
and watch film and listen to
music at the end of the day,

728
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,640
don't they?
That's what makes life livable,

729
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:39,440
not not their their warfares and
and economic discussions and and

730
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:40,840
numbers and figures and all
that.

731
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,480
That in itself is poetic.
Thank you.

732
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,760
So you when you talked about
going home, and I can see this

733
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,240
in my head, going home in the
joy of working on a piece,

734
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,120
here's a tough question.
How do you know when that piece

735
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:01,880
is done?
When it's finished?

736
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:09,600
It is a tough question actually,
that that is the skill that one

737
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:14,600
develops last in in in the
creative world.

738
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:20,040
That's when to stop.
And the answer to it comes from

739
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:26,600
from 2 two sides.
One side is having a vision of

740
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,160
what it is that you ultimately
want to say.

741
00:50:29,720 --> 00:50:36,920
What that means is that that
becomes a safety valve against

742
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:42,040
piling on more and more and more
elements to make it better.

743
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,920
If you know what it is you want
to say, then you know what what

744
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,240
is inadmissible.
You know what the ingredients

745
00:50:48,240 --> 00:50:50,040
are.
It's kind of like making making

746
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,800
a a a meal.
If if you are, if you're baking

747
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:58,440
a cake and you decide it's a
chocolate cake, then then don't

748
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,640
drench it in in fruits and
strawberry and then put some

749
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,360
dates on top of it and then put
some icing sugar on top of it.

750
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,880
And if it's a chocolate cake,
leave it as a chocolate cake.

751
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:09,160
You know what I mean?
Stop at that.

752
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,400
If you have an idea what the key
ingredient is, that is an

753
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:19,960
element of where to stop.
This is second side is the skill

754
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:26,520
to correct mistakes in the
process of the creative work.

755
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:31,160
And that what that means is that
you are less fearful, you

756
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:32,880
approach things more
courageously.

757
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,720
So you don't say OK, I'm going
to draw the slime, but what if

758
00:51:35,720 --> 00:51:37,440
it doesn't work?
I'm going to ruin it.

759
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,240
No, if you can undo the line
somehow, and if you can fix it,

760
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,600
then you will do the line and
you'll see if it looks good or

761
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:47,120
not.
So, so that skill affords you

762
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,920
courage and then you can undo
the the the wrong if there is

763
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,320
wrong done.
So it's a combination between

764
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:57,080
skill and clarity of vision that
that ultimately help you decide

765
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:58,880
when to stop.
But it's not an easy question

766
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,160
for sure.
And in some ways it's this is

767
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,280
almost full circle when you
talked about design, it's art

768
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:09,200
that actually works.
So it's is it meeting the intent

769
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:13,840
or the perspective that you want
to deliver?

770
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,880
Now, that doesn't mean that the
beholder might interpret other

771
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:23,520
meanings, but for the one the
artist who's producing it from

772
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,720
your perspective, is that
perspective now clear?

773
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,400
Yes, which is why when someone
tells me when I show a painting,

774
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,040
they say what is it supposed to
mean?

775
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:35,960
I never answer that question.
It's what you see.

776
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:40,400
It is what you see.
You know, ultimately it is what

777
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:41,840
you see.
And that's that's the beauty of

778
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:43,880
pure art.
But but if it is a design

779
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,720
project and I'm designing a bank
that looks like an amusement

780
00:52:47,720 --> 00:52:51,880
park, then there's a problem.
You know it needs to look like a

781
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:55,600
bank ultimately because it is
something that has to work.

782
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:01,760
Again, we're speaking with
Professor Taha Duty, who is Dean

783
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,800
for the College of Design at the
American University in the

784
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:13,600
Emirates AUE Dubai.
Taha, what is next for you or

785
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:19,960
for your College of Design?
And how might the add Up

786
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,560
Accelerated Excellence community
engage?

787
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:35,640
What is next for this college is
what is next for the design

788
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:43,840
industry at large.
I think I can speak for to a

789
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:47,200
certain degree.
For Dubai, I can speak for a

790
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:53,640
region that is geographically
situated at a joining point

791
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:59,240
between East and West, which as
we all know could be a great

792
00:53:59,720 --> 00:54:04,920
asset and also could be a great
challenge because potential

793
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:10,760
conflicts with interest and
interest begets power struggles

794
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,320
and selfishness.
So it's also a lot of

795
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:20,320
selflessness in order to think
of the greater good.

796
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:25,760
And I'm not really being
preachy, but I also think that

797
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:31,640
if anybody is poised to think
about the general good, it is

798
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:34,760
designers.
Because what we do is we

799
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:38,640
prescribe life and we create
opportunities.

800
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:44,040
So when you create an urban
space, you can never be certain

801
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:46,040
what's going to happen in that
urban space.

802
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:48,720
You can create it and see what
happens.

803
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:55,080
But you also hold the keys for a
better opportunity for a better

804
00:54:55,080 --> 00:55:02,680
reality and aim for the best.
Through design intent, through

805
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:08,080
skill, through knowledge,
through belonging to the place,

806
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:11,040
belonging to your heritage,
belonging to your culture,

807
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,800
finding a place for this culture
and the world.

808
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:19,080
I also think that there is
plenty of emphasis on power and

809
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:25,920
modern day world and not enough
emphasis on the productivity of

810
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:27,880
a culture relative to other
cultures.

811
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:33,920
You know, nations do things
because they can.

812
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:40,680
And that outlook alone is
extremely harsh if it's not

813
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:47,080
mitigated with a sense of how
much a certain culture could

814
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:49,760
contribute to the world, even if
it's a different kind of

815
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:56,680
contribution.
If you contribute openness or

816
00:55:56,680 --> 00:56:03,680
tolerance or poetry or song and
music as much as you contribute

817
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:10,720
weaponry and technological
advancement and you know

818
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:15,840
artificial intelligence, new
versions that will destroy the

819
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:20,280
old versions and make new
realities, etcetera, all of them

820
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:24,360
again are equally significant,
but they are different.

821
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:31,280
Over emphasis in one area does
result in a lopsided reality and

822
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,560
I do think that to a great
degree without sounding too

823
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:38,520
dismal to our current reality is
a little bit lopsided.

824
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:51,960
And that means that we are
accountable to understand that

825
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:57,400
no matter how minute a certain
contribution is ultimately by

826
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:04,480
being singular and by being
other to ulterior to the general

827
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:07,720
current, it could lead to
something that we should not be

828
00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:12,280
discouraged by being a smaller
number, a smaller university, a

829
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:15,920
smaller college, a smaller
population, a smaller

830
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,360
nationality, a smaller race.
It doesn't matter.

831
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:26,480
We actually in being so
contribute to D monolithing the

832
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:31,560
world, the man, making it more
heterogeneous and more varied.

833
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:35,880
And that variety by definition
and and essentially is healthy,

834
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,560
you know, to be actually to be
because the world does tend

835
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:44,080
naturally by natural order to
coagulate into singularity.

836
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:46,200
That does exist whether we like
it or not.

837
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,960
And that means a lot of the
smaller and the less get crushed

838
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,600
in the process.
And that is not healthy.

839
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:59,920
And we should not be discouraged
from keeping that variety just

840
00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:04,840
because of the general tendency
to coagulate into one.

841
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,600
That one is not necessarily the
best or biggest or most

842
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:12,360
beautiful at all, actually.
Thank you for that.

843
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,520
And how might folks connect with
you?

844
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:19,800
I'm, I'm actually, I have quite
a presence online.

845
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:24,240
You know, I have LinkedIn, I
have Instagram, which is noise.

846
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:26,920
Instagram is just mostly when I
go to New York, I, I take

847
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:29,280
photographs and I post them on
it, but it's a way to get to me

848
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,760
as well.
Also my, my e-mail address.

849
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:35,560
And there is, there's also the
College of Design, the American

850
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:37,640
University in the Emirates.
I'm also there.

851
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:44,080
I have X that I don't use.
I mostly use it to, to see what

852
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:46,240
others post.
I don't really write anything on

853
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,360
it, but I I it keeps me in touch
with and most of the time I

854
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:54,880
avoid it.
No Snapchat, no TikTok, none of

855
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:58,040
that.
So but but generally I am on

856
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:01,080
Instagram, on X on LinkedIn.
LinkedIn is probably the best

857
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:02,560
way, and that's how we met
anyway.

858
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,600
That's how we met.
That's definitely how we met.

859
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:07,920
So we will have the other in the
show notes.

860
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:14,080
So you can also connect with
Doctor Dory at the College of

861
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,960
Design and of course on
LinkedIn.

862
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:22,240
And I want to thank you for this
opportunity to learn with and

863
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,760
from you here at Add Up
Accelerated Excellence, where we

864
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,680
seek to advance educational
excellence and equity.

865
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,720
I thank you for giving me this
opportunity, for hearing me out.

866
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:38,920
You are definitely an incredible
platform and you are there for

867
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:41,240
the general good and that's
something we don't encounter

868
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:44,280
that often.
I so appreciate it.

869
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:47,320
Thank you so much.
Thank you for engaging with Ed

870
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,920
Up Accelerated Excellence, a
member of the Ed Up Experience

871
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:54,880
network of educational podcast.
A special thanks to our research

872
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,520
assistant, Emma Worthington,
APHD student of Fordham

873
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:01,600
University School Psychology
Program, and we want to hear

874
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:03,960
from you.
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875
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:07,520
other episodes or would like to
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876
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:12,040
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877
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:15,720
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878
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,240
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879
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:22,600
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884
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:39,040
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